hope the lude isint road worthy when you begin

i voted yes, especially if it has 4ws.

 

don't you think that this poll will be a little biased in the fact that almost everyone on this forum liked a prelude enough to buy it?

 

honestly, im not gonna vote. cuz the 4ws is good for some types of tracks and bad for other types of tracks. plus the fact that when 4ws, its kinda user-dependant and user-defined. some people like it some dont. some people can handle it and do amazingly awesome with it, some fuck up with it.

personally, i would lean more towards yes, but only AFTER the driver gets really used to it and knows what to expect in all situations from it. and some people just plain dont have the mental capacity to learn all of how it works in theory and in real world. no offense to anyone, but its true. some people just dont have the knack for getting used to something like that

 

im saying yes if you do an h22 swap and get some decent power.

 

After you added an h22 you would be over 5k.

 

Unless you already had some kind of attachment to 3G's, no.

If someone just randomly asked me if a 3G lude would be a good track car to pick up I would say no. Civic or Integra are much better choices if you want FWD, older Miata if you want RWD.

Not saying a 3G is bad on the track, just that I wouldnt reccomend someone buying it for a dedicated track car when there are better options out there.

 

Not if you bought a junker to start with.

But for a track toy for 5k, I'd look for an old miata or mr2, personally.

 

It'll do okay but if the car is going to be for track purposes only I really don't see why you'd go FWD. If you want a great starter track car get a Mazda Miata. They perform well in a variety of different race conditions, they're cheap to buy and cheap to mod, you can beat the piss out of them without breaking them, they're great for beginner RWD racers, they are easy to drive well....the list goes on and on. I know, a lot of people roll their eyes when they see "Mazda Miata" but those people don't know anything. You'll never see a true racing enthusiast roll their eyes at a Miata. They are great track cars.

 

I understand all your points, but for under 5k. And yeah, miatas are great, and RWD. I was talking specifically about FWD stuff though. For under 5k... what else is there? Why would a civic be better, considering a lude has more power, and easily outhandles it?

 

I understand all your points, but for under 5k. And yeah, miatas are great, and RWD. I was talking specifically about FWD stuff though. For under 5k... what else is there? Why would a civic be better, considering a lude has more power, and easily outhandles it?

because it has way more aftermarket support, weighs less, and can easily be faster with minimal mods.

 

Wanna make a great track car for under 5k
Buy a junker 3rd gen lude= 1000
A SR20detw/rwd or awd tranny =1000
Rear axle assembly=300 from junk yard.
Custom mounts= 500ish
custom electrical=500ish


You still have around 2k to play around with tuning and suspension mods that would be the ultimate 3rd gen track car. :]

 

Ummm... no. :|

 

From my point of view, I would have to say no, even though I love my prelude and would never give it up, to me a track car has to be in the 11's at least to be called a track car. Or if you are circuit racing, then by the suspension needed alone in order to make the times needed 5,000 is cutting it close just in suspension. 5,000 isn't gonna get you there in my eyes, I don't care if you got the car for free. It would still be a great car, don't get me wrong, and you could take it out to the track, just not gonna compete unless your comparing yourself to stock newer cars which already push over 200+ from the factory. In that respect you are still in the street category to me. Starting off, you are headed in the right direction, I see 8,000-15,000 to get you there properly.

It's all good either way, just my opinion on the poll!

 

From my point of view, I would have to say no, even though I love my prelude and would never give it up, to me a track car has to be in the 11's at least to be called a track car. Or if you are circuit racing, then by the suspension needed alone in order to make the times needed 5,000 is cutting it close just in suspension. 5,000 isn't gonna get you there in my eyes, I don't care if you got the car for free. It would still be a great car, don't get me wrong, and you could take it out to the track, just not gonna compete unless your comparing yourself to stock newer cars which already push over 200+ from the factory. In that respect you are still in the street category to me. Starting off, you are headed in the right direction, I see 8,000-15,000 to get you there properly.

It's all good either way, just my opinion on the poll!

I'm like 99% sure he's not talking about driving straight...

 

It doesnt really matter if it's FWD, RWD, or AWD. A well set up car will handle great. The "must be RWD to handle good" thing is a myth.

 

:rofl: If that's the case then why has every single high performance car ever made been RWD or AWD? Why are F1 cars RWD? Let's be realistic here. You can put a great setup on a FWD car all you want but in the end it will still be beat around a track by similarly setup RWD and AWD cars.

 

Traction baby. (Remember were talking about a sub 5k car here not Ferraris) Not to mention the fact that RWD is funner. But in this price range and the performance level thats comes with it there wouldnt be anything wrong going with FWD. (As long as it wasnt some shitbox car or something.)

But an example: Just look at the WTCC, FWD and RWD cars compete with eachother. Same with the JTCC when it was still around.

 

Once again....

On a road course, a 3rd gen Prelude 5 speed has ** 5 ** usable gears. The Civic, as an example, only has 4 usable gears. Shifting a Civic from 4th to 5th is like falling into a hole !

This is never mentioned because you guys know practically nothing about gearing, probably because 5th gear is never used in stupid drag racing.

:tongue2::tongue2::tongue2:

 

Once again....

On a road course, a 3rd gen Prelude 5 speed has ** 5 ** usable gears. The Civic, as an example, only has 4 usable gears. Shifting a Civic from 4th to 5th is like falling into a hole !

This is never mentioned because you guys know practically nothing about gearing, probably because 5th gear is never used in stupid drag racing.

:tongue2::tongue2::tongue2:

thats part of what i love about the 3g lude; the tight gear ratios are great for certain types of track use, and twisty mountain road use

 

4ws only is a joke. Go to prelude3g.com and read the old ssc article that compared track times of 2ws and 4ws. Some people on here act like 4ws on our cars was a true performance add on when in actuality it is a parking lot mechanism. I am going to make my lude a street/weekend track car with time. I know its not the best car to do it with but as someone already said if you have an attactment to them it may be worth it and thats exactly where i stand

 

I went to Prelude3g.com. I looked for the SCC article. I found one SCC article on that site. Nowhere did it put 2ws against 4ws. It was about a Jackson Racing 4ws Prelude. What article are you talking about?

 

I plan to use my lude on the track too soon here.

However if you think 4WS was only made for parking lots you need to go re-read the old magazine articles I have on my site.

Dano brought up a good point about our 5th gear, very nice!

 

I still want to buy a pretty junked up 3rd gen and stick a h22 in the rear for a mid engine RWD. I think that would actually prove easier to accomplish than converted the car to front engine rear wheel drive.


I also somewhat agree about the 4WS vs 2WS. 4WS will do a bit better but really my 2WS has never been pushed to the point to making me think I'd ever NEED 4WS. Even up in the mountains my 2WS can handle tight tight corkscrew turns with ease and plenty of speed.

Regardless, I think our cars are great FUN cars for the track. If you are trying to be truely competitive, you'd have more money to spend on a better format.

 

I still want to buy a pretty junked up 3rd gen and stick a h22 in the rear for a mid engine RWD. I think that would actually prove easier to accomplish than converted the car to front engine rear wheel drive.

how bout you try both and tell us first hand which is easier :turn:

 

I asked the builder of the Mcbarren car at nopi how he used the h22 for mid-engine rear wheel drive and told him I was curious for converted our cars and he made me sound stupid for thinking it was so hard.

cutting and mounting the engine is the hardest thing to do. He said all you have to do is make sure to mount the engine in the same placement as it would be in the front of the car just infront of the rear axles instead of the front.

With using a front engine RWD you have to make space for a driveshaft to run down, make a custom rear axle and etc ontop of converting the engine bay. Regardless we don't have the room in the engine bay to make it fit. A gas tank will fit nice and easy up front.

Both are far from "easy" but mid engine RWD would be the easier of the two.

 

If that's the case then why has every single high performance car ever made been RWD or AWD? Why are F1 cars RWD

Two words - Torque Steer

 

Well that and think about the fact that the front wheels are doing ALL the work. Braking, accelerating, and turning. In a FR format the rear wheels are doing the pushing while the front only take care of the braking and steering. FF have a tendency to understeer and are not as balanced (most of the time) in their weight distribution.

This is not to say a FF can not be driven fast, but it does have more against it than Torque Steer. Plus most togue machines don't have to worry about torque steer as much. A good balanced machine isn't going to be the same as it's drag car relations. A well balanced suspension and a useable power range are more important than gobs of crazy lane changing power.

Then again I don't know much on actually 'tracking' cars, but it stands to reason that both have similar principles. FF cars also take a bit more skill to drive fast from what I've seen; trail braking can help a car alot, but it takes a skilled driver to correctly use the technique.

 

Not that is has anything to do with building a track car, but in rally circles it is well known that a front wheel drive car will be faster than a RWD car. Rally cars don't usually see all that much power compared to other "race" cars. The extra stability under acceleration helps out a lot and once you can left foot brake you can easily turn as hard as you need to.

On a track you have a lot more traction so FWD is just a little easier to push hard, assuming you have a well set up car.

A 3g prelude would make an ok track car. Due to the good balance, low coefficient of drag, and fairly low center of gravity. With the right suspension, and a few mods to move the power band up a little bit higher. Unfortunately the aftermarket options are so slim that it makes it tough.

Also the high RPM oiling issues would be a huge deal on a dedicated track car.

So to build it for under 5K you'd end up with a car with maybe 125hp at the wheels because after doing the suspension, tires, brakes, oiling and safety gear you wouldn't have much money to put into the engine. Maybe I/H/E, and thats if you get a deal on the car. Oh you would probably want to do something about the sun roof too.

It would still be a lot of fun out there.

It's just not a great idea, because the same amount of money could net you a superior car if you built something else.

 

Not to say 4ws is god, but 99% of the time I experience oversteer not understeer. Whilst 2ws is constantly plagued with understeer.

I would deffinitly call that a bit of and advantage. Being able to easily rotate your car instead of plow is rather handy sometimes....

Again, not sure how it translates on a road course.

 

Hmm. I don't know if it's jut my crappy tires but on anything less than a full tank of gas (empty trunk, and not accelerating) my rear end on my 2ws always lets go first. With a full tank all the tires let go about the same time.

 

I never thought .34(as stated on prelude3g.com) was a low coefficient of drag. It's about average, from what I've seen. I mean, it's better than a school bus, but around what every other sporty car is.

 

So did you post a link to this on NASIOC? You really ought to let this go.

There is something everyone both here and on NASIOC was missing, though. When we say track car, do we mean just for fun, or are we competing with it? Because what you look for in those cases are very different.

For just a track car, it should be fun, but it doesn't have to be competitive. For me at least, I prefer something faster than most japanese 4-cylinder cars have to offer. I'd go for something like an old fox body mustang or 3rd gen f-body. They have a little more get up and go, and don't be fooled, they do actually handle pretty well.

Then a race car is different from that. For a race car you look at what is competitive. Then a civic or integra can be fun, or a miata or something like that, since you'll be racing against people in similar cars. In the instances of race cars, preludes tend not to be classed competitively or are too limited by the rules (there might be a tire size limit, and since the prelude is heavier than something like a civic, it is then effectively under tired compared to a civic).

But the car is alot of fun to autox.

 

I will put this example out there.

I have a 1986 Porsche with a carerra 4 suspension set-up....so it's a mild suspension set-up.

My 91 4ws has 3k worth of suspension mods done to it and can handle just as well as my porsche in most cases.

So for 5k....a 4ws lude would make a great track car if you know how to drive.

Other than that....I say miata or an porsche 944 non turbo.

EDIT: And whoever says a civic needs to be bitch slapped....I have a civic with the amount of mods done to the suspenion as my lude and my lude out handles my civic all day long.

 

I will put this example out there.

I have a 1986 Porsche with a carerra 4 suspension set-up....so it's a mild suspension set-up.

My 91 4ws has 3k worth of suspension mods done to it and can handle just as well as my porsche in most cases.

So for 5k....a 4ws lude would make a great track car if you know how to drive.

Other than that....I say miata or an porsche 944 non turbo.

EDIT: And whoever says a civic needs to be bitch slapped....I have a civic with the amount of mods done to the suspenion as my lude and my lude out handles my civic all day long.

^^^And thank you for that^^^A Civic is gonna get owned in the handling department by a Lude if both are in stock trim. Why would anyone think that if you did equal mods to both that the Civic would not outhandle the Lude? I know, I know, we are talking about a particular budget here, and comparing aftemarket support, but still, I'm sick and tired of hearing people say that Integras, Civics, etc...will out handle a Lude when that is not the case in stock form. Put equal quality parts on the Lude and take them to the track and watch the Lude shine.

 

i have had both a civic hatch, and a prelude for dirt track cars, and while i feel the prelude handled better there, they both were rather interesting

Dirt track + no oversteer = Domination.

i really think the 4WS system may be a hinderance in a dirt setting though, with the cam system it uses, and having to steer the car back and forth very often and very quickly through each turn... it may even cause oversteer? speculation.

of course each type of track is different, not sure i would go prelude for a paved circle track... but i think i would a road course, that would be fun

as for the H22 rear engine thing... honestly, you probably wont find too many tracks that allow it... at least not until to get to the more modified classes, and there, you would be SEVERELY outpowered.

 

i've fucked around with my 4WS in the dirt plenty of times (our student parking lot is a huge dirt lot behind the school).. it definitely does feel different, i don't know if i would call it oversteer, never thought of it that way, but that could be the case.