[MustardCat]

Traction baby. (Remember were talking about a sub 5k car here not Ferraris) Not to mention the fact that RWD is funner. But in this price range and the performance level thats comes with it there wouldnt be anything wrong going with FWD. (As long as it wasnt some shitbox car or something.)

But an example: Just look at the WTCC, FWD and RWD cars compete with eachother. Same with the JTCC when it was still around.

 

[dano]

Once again....

On a road course, a 3rd gen Prelude 5 speed has ** 5 ** usable gears. The Civic, as an example, only has 4 usable gears. Shifting a Civic from 4th to 5th is like falling into a hole !

This is never mentioned because you guys know practically nothing about gearing, probably because 5th gear is never used in stupid drag racing.

:tongue2::tongue2::tongue2:

 

[motoxxxman]

Once again....

On a road course, a 3rd gen Prelude 5 speed has ** 5 ** usable gears. The Civic, as an example, only has 4 usable gears. Shifting a Civic from 4th to 5th is like falling into a hole !

This is never mentioned because you guys know practically nothing about gearing, probably because 5th gear is never used in stupid drag racing.

:tongue2::tongue2::tongue2:

thats part of what i love about the 3g lude; the tight gear ratios are great for certain types of track use, and twisty mountain road use

 

[LudeAEM]

4ws only is a joke. Go to prelude3g.com and read the old ssc article that compared track times of 2ws and 4ws. Some people on here act like 4ws on our cars was a true performance add on when in actuality it is a parking lot mechanism. I am going to make my lude a street/weekend track car with time. I know its not the best car to do it with but as someone already said if you have an attactment to them it may be worth it and thats exactly where i stand

 

[MustardCat]

I plan to use my lude on the track too soon here.

However if you think 4WS was only made for parking lots you need to go re-read the old magazine articles I have on my site.

Dano brought up a good point about our 5th gear, very nice!

 

[Erotomania]

I still want to buy a pretty junked up 3rd gen and stick a h22 in the rear for a mid engine RWD. I think that would actually prove easier to accomplish than converted the car to front engine rear wheel drive.


I also somewhat agree about the 4WS vs 2WS. 4WS will do a bit better but really my 2WS has never been pushed to the point to making me think I'd ever NEED 4WS. Even up in the mountains my 2WS can handle tight tight corkscrew turns with ease and plenty of speed.

Regardless, I think our cars are great FUN cars for the track. If you are trying to be truely competitive, you'd have more money to spend on a better format.

 

[chromalux]

I still want to buy a pretty junked up 3rd gen and stick a h22 in the rear for a mid engine RWD. I think that would actually prove easier to accomplish than converted the car to front engine rear wheel drive.

how bout you try both and tell us first hand which is easier :turn:

 

[BDoggPrelude]

Once again....

On a road course, a 3rd gen Prelude 5 speed has ** 5 ** usable gears. The Civic, as an example, only has 4 usable gears. Shifting a Civic from 4th to 5th is like falling into a hole !

This is never mentioned because you guys know practically nothing about gearing, probably because 5th gear is never used in stupid drag racing.

:tongue2::tongue2::tongue2:

The Si hatch has 5 usable gears last time I checked. Also, how many tracks do you think a 3rd gen is going to get to use 5th gear on anyway. The only one that comes to my mind is the Nurburg Ring. I do agree with you on the drag racing comment though.

 

[Erotomania]

I asked the builder of the Mcbarren car at nopi how he used the h22 for mid-engine rear wheel drive and told him I was curious for converted our cars and he made me sound stupid for thinking it was so hard.

cutting and mounting the engine is the hardest thing to do. He said all you have to do is make sure to mount the engine in the same placement as it would be in the front of the car just infront of the rear axles instead of the front.

With using a front engine RWD you have to make space for a driveshaft to run down, make a custom rear axle and etc ontop of converting the engine bay. Regardless we don't have the room in the engine bay to make it fit. A gas tank will fit nice and easy up front.

Both are far from "easy" but mid engine RWD would be the easier of the two.

 

[Erotomania]

The Si hatch has 5 usable gears last time I checked. Also, how many tracks do you think a 3rd gen is going to get to use 5th gear on anyway. The only one that comes to my mind is the Nurburg Ring. I do agree with you on the drag racing comment though.

I'm sure you could see 5th gear on road atlanta :Rock:

I'll let you know if I ever get the lude to a track day there.

 

[curtis12]

If that's the case then why has every single high performance car ever made been RWD or AWD? Why are F1 cars RWD

Two words - Torque Steer

 

[accordionfolder]

Two words - Torque Steer

Well that and think about the fact that the front wheels are doing ALL the work. Braking, accelerating, and turning. In a FR format the rear wheels are doing the pushing while the front only take care of the braking and steering. FF have a tendency to understeer and are not as balanced (most of the time) in their weight distribution.

This is not to say a FF can not be driven fast, but it does have more against it than Torque Steer. Plus most togue machines don't have to worry about torque steer as much. A good balanced machine isn't going to be the same as it's drag car relations. A well balanced suspension and a useable power range are more important than gobs of crazy lane changing power.

Then again I don't know much on actually 'tracking' cars, but it stands to reason that both have similar principles. FF cars also take a bit more skill to drive fast from what I've seen; trail braking can help a car alot, but it takes a skilled driver to correctly use the technique.

 

[cash68]

4ws only is a joke. Go to prelude3g.com and read the old ssc article that compared track times of 2ws and 4ws. Some people on here act like 4ws on our cars was a true performance add on when in actuality it is a parking lot mechanism. I am going to make my lude a street/weekend track car with time. I know its not the best car to do it with but as someone already said if you have an attactment to them it may be worth it and thats exactly where i stand

I went to Prelude3g.com. I looked for the SCC article. I found one SCC article on that site. Nowhere did it put 2ws against 4ws. It was about a Jackson Racing 4ws Prelude. What article are you talking about?

 

[Xak]

Not that is has anything to do with building a track car, but in rally circles it is well known that a front wheel drive car will be faster than a RWD car. Rally cars don't usually see all that much power compared to other "race" cars. The extra stability under acceleration helps out a lot and once you can left foot brake you can easily turn as hard as you need to.

On a track you have a lot more traction so FWD is just a little easier to push hard, assuming you have a well set up car.

A 3g prelude would make an ok track car. Due to the good balance, low coefficient of drag, and fairly low center of gravity. With the right suspension, and a few mods to move the power band up a little bit higher. Unfortunately the aftermarket options are so slim that it makes it tough.

Also the high RPM oiling issues would be a huge deal on a dedicated track car.

So to build it for under 5K you'd end up with a car with maybe 125hp at the wheels because after doing the suspension, tires, brakes, oiling and safety gear you wouldn't have much money to put into the engine. Maybe I/H/E, and thats if you get a deal on the car. Oh you would probably want to do something about the sun roof too.

It would still be a lot of fun out there.

It's just not a great idea, because the same amount of money could net you a superior car if you built something else.

 

[LudeAEM]

I went to Prelude3g.com. I looked for the SCC article. I found one SCC article on that site. Nowhere did it put 2ws against 4ws. It was about a Jackson Racing 4ws Prelude. What article are you talking about?

sorry its the may 1988 grassroots article that compares 2ws vs 4ws. Granted its not a road course but that only helps the 2ws debate because of the quick changes that an auto-x course has a real road course most likely will not.

 

[accordionfolder]

Not to say 4ws is god, but 99% of the time I experience oversteer not understeer. Whilst 2ws is constantly plagued with understeer.

I would deffinitly call that a bit of and advantage. Being able to easily rotate your car instead of plow is rather handy sometimes....

Again, not sure how it translates on a road course.

 

[namo26]

Not to say 4ws is god, but 99% of the time I experience oversteer not understeer. Whilst 2ws is constantly plagued with understeer.

I would deffinitly call that a bit of and advantage. Being able to easily rotate your car instead of plow is rather handy sometimes....

Again, not sure how it translates on a road course.

Hmm. I don't know if it's jut my crappy tires but on anything less than a full tank of gas (empty trunk, and not accelerating) my rear end on my 2ws always lets go first. With a full tank all the tires let go about the same time.

 

[abrown]

:rofl: If that's the case then why has every single high performance car ever made been RWD or AWD? Why are F1 cars RWD? Let's be realistic here. You can put a great setup on a FWD car all you want but in the end it will still be beat around a track by similarly setup RWD and AWD cars.[/quote

ever heard of speed world challenge? the winningest team, realtime racing(look it up), has tracked type r, rsx-s and lately tsx against everything the world has to offer and wins everytime. tell p.d. cunningham front wheel drive cars can't be tracked successfully and loose the argument.

 

[Sully90Si]

I never thought .34(as stated on prelude3g.com) was a low coefficient of drag. It's about average, from what I've seen. I mean, it's better than a school bus, but around what every other sporty car is.

 

[BA5]

So did you post a link to this on NASIOC? You really ought to let this go.

There is something everyone both here and on NASIOC was missing, though. When we say track car, do we mean just for fun, or are we competing with it? Because what you look for in those cases are very different.

For just a track car, it should be fun, but it doesn't have to be competitive. For me at least, I prefer something faster than most japanese 4-cylinder cars have to offer. I'd go for something like an old fox body mustang or 3rd gen f-body. They have a little more get up and go, and don't be fooled, they do actually handle pretty well.

Then a race car is different from that. For a race car you look at what is competitive. Then a civic or integra can be fun, or a miata or something like that, since you'll be racing against people in similar cars. In the instances of race cars, preludes tend not to be classed competitively or are too limited by the rules (there might be a tire size limit, and since the prelude is heavier than something like a civic, it is then effectively under tired compared to a civic).

But the car is alot of fun to autox.