Honda Prelude Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

Freeze-12 or R-134a

Jump to Latest
24K views 152 replies 31 participants last post by  nkiser38  
#1 ·
So I am replacing and rebuilding the A/C in my 88 Si. New compressor, exp valve, condenser, evaporator, drier, discharge line, suction line, o-rings, ester oil...

Alright so which is better. I understand the R-134a needs a higher PSI to function, and it is thinner, so leaks easier. However, the Freeze-12 is actually a mixture of R-134a and some other R-# freon-based stuff, but operates at a lower pressure. Also, supposedly the Freeze-12 only needs 90% of the quantity that R-12 needs to operate the same. The thing is, Freeze-12 is more expensive than R-134a...

What has worked for you? What are the pros/cons of each?
 
#2 ·
Another question. Are there any A/C parts that can be used from another vehicle? Like, if I could save some money using a drier from a civic, or a condenser from an accord, that would be nice.
 
#3 ·
drier is like 15 bucks at auto parts store. is your condensor damaged? if not there is no reason to replace it. just be sure that whoever charges the system pulls a proper vacuum on it prior to charging it and it will be fine. i used 134a, but i had access to 30 lb cylinder and a vacuum pump. i replaced the compressor drier and oil.
 
D
#4 · (Edited)
A/C Which system to go with ?

The consenses I got from several A/C experts was; stay with the orig. R12 system. Even though it may be more expensive, it is what our cars wer'e meant to function with at the maximum potential with minimal problems. R134 about 80 to 90% effective (cold) as R12. Then there is the cheaper Freeze12, flamable, and not as effective as R12. Believe me Iv'e done my homework on this one. Iv'e spoken to 5 different mechanics, each had a little differnent opinion's. The guy who made the most sense and guys who work in a Honda salvage yard for 25 years. Consenses R12. I also posted on another site,same question. They said R12. There is also some esoteric stuff out there, but they are not without thier side-effects. The R134 OK, but the system needs to be purged completely.
 
D
#7 ·
As it was told to me quote; Freeze 12 is actually 80% R134a and 20% R14B. R14B helps carry the mineral oil used in an R12 system, but not very well. The two refrigerants also leak at a different rate due to there molecular structure..... warm..R134 retrofit....cool, Freeze 12......cold R12.....colder, ES 12a.....coldest Envirosafe Industrial 12a....also flamable.
 
#9 ·
Where are you guys getting r12? I can't get it anywhere around here anymore. I used to be able to get some from a farmer I know who stockpiled several 30 pound bottles, but he won't share anymore because it's so hard to find here.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
4
#74 ·
shops reclaim r12 from cars. i had my r12 reclaimed from my car just because i know how bad it is to let it out for the o zone. my a/c wasnt quite up to par. i could have had it topped off for $80 or for 34 i got the 134a conversion kit from wal mart. only shops can get r12..r12 isnt produced any more but it can be reclaimed and filtered and made back to new and sold.my lude isnt too cold but its okay. i converted my mustang years ago and it was icey cold. i didnt replace anything. but keep in mind r12 doesnt mix with 134a so if theres any left in the system it might now work well. your supposed to get a new receiver/dryer but like i said i never have.personally i wish i woulda kept the r12. my jeep has r12 and its alot colder and has way more space to cool
 
#12 ·
I don't have any way to acquire R-12. All the parts I listed are being replaced with brand new or possibly remanned parts. Currently, not a single A/C part is installed on the 88 Si lude. Most of the parts I listed were actually salvaged and installed on my 88 S lude (R-134a and cold but leaked).

I will be buying a vacuum pump and zapping any moister out of the lines after I install everything. Hopefully doing that will also give me an indication of whether or not it leaks. If Freeze-12 is flammable, it will not be put in my car. How can I confirm this is the case?

So far, R-12 is eliminated from the list, and possibly Freeze-12. That leaves R-134a. Any other options for non-flammable, usable, and less than $50/#?

Keep in mind, I will be spending upwards of $600 for parts alone... Doing all the work myself with the proper tools. No collection is necessary because there are no A/C components present in the car.
 
#13 · (Edited)
What about R-410a? Would that work in our AC systems using ester oil?

Never mind. The wiki states it needs thicker tubing and uses higher pressure than R-22... Wait, is R-12 lower or higher than R-22?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-410A

Does anyone know anything about R-500? This website seems to indicate it is a replacement for R-12 systems.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/refrigerants-properties-d_145.html

Ok well here is a list of refrigerants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_refrigerants
 
#14 · (Edited)
r12 is available all over Craigslist from private parties so no need for certification. I just looked in the Atlanta craigslist & there were plenty of listings. I bought several cans off CL for roughly about $25 per 12oz can. I tried Freeze 12 in one of my cars & it's okay. My lude is converted to 134A & it is cool at best. Just enough for you to not sweat too much when it's 112* outside. My other car still runs on r12 & it's by far the best.

Here's one listing I found on Atlanta CL. Not sure where you are geographically to Atlanta though.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/pts/1821231729.html
 
#15 ·
I just found someone selling a 30 lb bottle for $450 on craigslist. I'm seriously thinking about buying it. That's only $15/lb. Anyone want to go in on it with me?:megacool: Only problem is I have to drive to Montana to get it.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#79 · (Edited)
luzer said:
I just found someone selling a 30 lb bottle for $450 on craigslist. I'm seriously thinking about buying it. That's only $15/lb. Anyone want to go in on it with me?:megacool: Only problem is I have to drive to Montana to get it.
Click to expand...
I would be in. I have all the gauges, attachments and vacuum pump to charge system.

Also found some 1# cans 10 minutes from my house. $25.00 each. I only need 1 can, would be happy to pick some up for you if you are interested.
 
#17 ·
Hate to say it but since you have already put in ester oil your going to have to use r12, and it's because r134 uses pag oil and you get some funky things going on when you put ester oil with r134, if I recall correctly I think it gelatinizes soo, you have to just go ahead and put in r12 again
 
#18 ·
I haven't put anything in yet. Currently, nothing A/C related is on the car. Haven't bought the ester oil either. I read somewhere that ester oil is compatible with both R-12 and R-134a, so now I am receiving more conflicting information about it. If this is the case, can someone clue me in on what PAG oil is compatible with the compressor, R-12, and R-134a?

If I buy R-12 on craigslist, would that be legal? I am not certified for A/C systems and don't want to break the rules.
 
#19 ·
yes it would be illegal, (not sure how you would get caught with it) but getting certified for refrigeration repair isn't hard or expensive. at least it wasn't back when i was certified. kevin is correct too. pag oil is for 134, and ester is for 12. there is a synthetic blend of pag that is compatible with both and it is specific for retrofitted systems. i would go with the 12 though if you have the funds for it.
 
#20 ·
I'd like to buy that R-12, but with my luck, it is a sting of some sort. Right now I am trying to follow all the rules I can. That R-12 is very tempting but I just can't risk it. That price seems too good and who keeps 19 cans of R-12 sitting in their garage?

Alright, so what PAG synthetic oil should I buy? Is it synthetic PAG-100, PAG-50, or something else?
 
#21 · (Edited)
TripleLude said:
I'd like to buy that R-12, but with my luck, it is a sting of some sort. Right now I am trying to follow all the rules I can. That R-12 is very tempting but I just can't risk it. That price seems too good and who keeps 19 cans of R-12 sitting in their garage?

i would buy it anyway, and keep it to yourself. thats a goldmine.

Alright, so what PAG synthetic oil should I buy? Is it synthetic PAG-100, PAG-50, or something else?
Click to expand...
its been just over 10 years since i was doing this type of work. i would say search on google or just go to the parts store and read the bottle. i can tell you what i used when i get home as i saved the bottle. came from pep boys i think or napa.

and i thought you said it was a 30 lb cylinder of r 12?

edit. my bad that was luzer that found that.
 
H
#24 ·
TripleLude said:
So I am replacing and rebuilding the A/C in my 88 Si. New compressor, exp valve, condenser, evaporator, drier, discharge line, suction line, o-rings, ester oil...

Alright so which is better. I understand the R-134a needs a higher PSI to function, and it is thinner, so leaks easier. However, the Freeze-12 is actually a mixture of R-134a and some other R-# freon-based stuff, but operates at a lower pressure. Also, supposedly the Freeze-12 only needs 90% of the quantity that R-12 needs to operate the same. The thing is, Freeze-12 is more expensive than R-134a...

What has worked for you? What are the pros/cons of each?
Click to expand...
r-134a is not thinner than r-12...thats why you can use r-134a in r-12 lines(suction and discharge)...r-12 is thinner than r-134a thats another reason for the switch from r-12 to r-134a because r-134a has bigger molecules which allows it to not leak as easy as r-12. if you ran r-12 in r-134a lines it would leak out of the lines due to the r-12 having smaller molecules and it would allow it to eventually leak right throught the rubber lines.
 
H
#29 ·
i was wrong!! r-12 is in fact thinner than r-134a, sorry about that! the reason why i thought that was because if your car is pre-1989 then you have to change your hoses(suction and discharge). the hoses most likley dont have the nylon inner liner(paraflex) and they will allow the r-134a to leak through because it has smaller molecules.

i did however find this: r-12 is capable of removing 68.2 BTU's of heat per pound of refridgerant per hour....r-134a is capable of removing 89.3 BTU's of heat per pound of refridgerant per hour. so basically r-134a is better when it comes to cooling if you have the proper charge and everything is working correctly, it will condense more of the humidity from the outside air as it passes through the evaporator.

as for the dessicant in the accumulator or reciever dryer you can either use a XH7 or XH9, XH5 is for r-12 only.
 
#27 ·
More and more I am leaning towards the R-134a. Hell, if that doesn't work out I can vacuum it all out and use something else.
 
#28 ·
its not that bad, and the compressor cycles normally. with your windows being tinted, that will help too. i did 134 without tint, and when its 95 out and humid i was comfortable. its not as cold as my 06 tacoma, but i think it would be with tinted windows. thats one of my next upgrades. still gotta get the exhaust done first though.
 
Honda Prelude Forum
posts
2.9M
members
64K
Since
2002
A forum community dedicated to Honda Prelude owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, engine builds, troubleshooting, maintenance, VTEC, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
3rd Gen 5th Gen General Prelude Discussions 4th Gen 2nd Gen