Playludesc's e85 Supercharger Build

playludesc · Feb 4, 2012

Playludesc's Supercharger Build

1999 CBM Honda Prelude Base SportShift 113,000 miles

Induction/Exhaust:
Insys Short Ram Cool-Air Intake with Amsoil EaAU6080 Filter and Velocity Stack
70mm OmniPower Throttle Body
Rosko Racing Heat Insulating TB Gasket
Endyn Modified Jackson Racing Supercharger @ 9psi (Eaton M62)
Custom Heat Insulating Blower-to-Plenum Gasket
JRSC Plenum with Webbing Removed
Custom Heat Insulating Plenum-to-IM Gasket
Custom Modified H22 Intake Manifold
Rosko Racing Heat Insulating IM-to-Head Gasket
DEI Titanium/Volcanic Rock Header Wrap
Modified Sickspeed Catchcan

Fuel Delivery:
Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
AEM Fuel Rail
AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator
Injector Dynamics 1000cc Injectors

Electronic Tuning:
Neptune RTP in P06 with VTEC and PWM Boost Components Installed
eBay OBD1-OBD2 Conversion Harness
AEM UEGO Wideband O2 Meter

Drive Train:
JDM M2B4 Transmission with LSD

Rywire Hydraulic Clutch Line
5-Speed Tachometer
Custom d20 Shift Knob
Everything Else You'd Expect in a 5-Spd Swap

Suspension and Similar
Custom 6-Point Rollcage
Custom Upper Rear Strut Bar with Adjustable Preload
Hawk HPS Brake Pads Fronts and Rears
Energy Suspension Front Motor Mount Insert

Weight Reduction:
Interior Fully Stripped Excepting Dash and Floor Insulation
Resonator Box and Vacuum Control Box

Creature Comforts:
Sparco Seats with Custom, Very Low Seat Brackets
Pioneer DEH-2200UB Headunit
Clarion EQS746 Half-DIN Graphic Equalizer
Audiopipe APSM4050 1000w (320rms) Mini Amplifier
Infinity Kappa 60.9cs Front Components
Infinity Kappa 693.9i Rear 6x9s

Items to be purchased/installed over the next couple of months/years:
Cold Ram Air Intake, Custom Pressure Box and Intake Trumpet
Koni Yellow + Eibach Spring Coilovers
Aquamist HFS2v3 Meth/Water Injection
Mishimoto Radiator and Slim Fans
Innovative Traction Bar with Custom Torque Damper for Front Mount
Custom Short Primary 4-1 Header
4" Oval Custom Exhaust with Electric Exhaust Cutout
Innovative Motor Mounts @ 75a or 85a
17x8 Wheels with 235/40/17 Nitto NT05s
VitViper Boost-by-Gear Bypass Valve
Pulley Boys 2.95" Focus SVT Snout Pulley
VIS Replica Mugen Kit (bumper, sides skirts, rear valences)
CF Hood, Trunk, Fenders and Mugen Wing
Done

"Lilly"

Sparco seats, 6-point roll cage, rear strut bar.

The full kit from Geramy and my EMU.

Detail of milled snout for smaller snout pulley.

The modified intake manifold and JRSC plenum.

Detail of pulley bracket, show additional pulley to fight belt slip. It's missing one at the bottom, but Geramy is correcting that; because he's awesome.

Boomslang PnP harness. Build quality is immaculate.

Fuel delivery: ID1000B with PnP adapters, AEM Fuel Rail, AEM Fuel Pressure Regulator.

Omni 70mm TB.

Rosko's heat insulating gaskets.

AEM Wideband O2 Sensor.

Modified Sickspeed Catchcan

SNOBORDBOY · Feb 4, 2012

Nice to see a build thread, now lets see the install. Just a note, I had a Boomslang harness rub through the insulation and ground the MAP and TPS, so make sure it doesn't rub on anything, or double wrap it with tape or such.

playludesc · Feb 5, 2012

Thanks for the tip!

bouckarooo · Feb 4, 2012

You should look into the JS Ignition Safdeguard system. These things are really kick ass when running higher comrpession and boost as they allow far superior control over detonation.

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

playludesc · Feb 5, 2012

Cool! I'd read about them before, but forgotten. It will be really useful when I'm experimenting in Stage 2.

GoldLudeRay · Feb 4, 2012

just because you have e85...that doesnt mean the stock pistons are bullet proof...the ring lands on the stock style pistons are weak...alot of time even with e85 there caped at around 300tq...depending on turbo/supercharged/nitrous you can hit that quickly...i know my ring lands were weak from many pulls at around 275tq and pushing it too 310tq damaged them quickly on e85...

the fastest superchared lude...i have seen was around high 12's

the set-up looks great and i wish ya luck on the build

playludesc · Feb 5, 2012

Thanks for the info on the pistons, it's very good to know. In Stage 1 my crank torque shouldn't be that high. If I have to, I'll use an e85/Premium blend or run the e85 lean to lower power. With some weight reduction and slicks, she'll hit 12s at Stage 1 and 11s at Stage 2, God willing.

zuptidi · Feb 5, 2012

No plans for manual tranny?

playludesc · Feb 6, 2012

Woops, accidentally edited that out. Stage 2 happens when SS explodes, that way I'll just have to pull the engine once.

GoldLudeRay · Feb 6, 2012

untill you swap that car too a manual...i dont see any records being set....the auto's kill theese cars...maybe if you get a stall in it some way? and the tranny isnt going too be very durable at your power level its going too slip quickly

playludesc · Feb 6, 2012

You're probably right. I signed up for the group buy for the Albins gears last night, so I'll probably end up putting those in with manual when the SS goes. I just hope I'm still employed when Albins wants me to pay the second half

okerface:

Shit is expensive.

But I'd rather be a little more in debt now than have no good options for a transmission when my DD is making 400+ whp.

zuptidi · Feb 6, 2012

yup the manual tranny might have to be in stage one lol

Apex1972 · Feb 6, 2012

I like the FartTube filter.

playludesc · Feb 6, 2012

Thanks, there's a panel filter for a Caterpillar tractor that flows enough CFM, but it's 2ft square. This one is 15"x10"x8", so I think I can cram it in there somehow with a custom air box and a shaker-style hood scoop.

playludesc · Feb 6, 2012

Header ships today, so excited to see that thing. Those primaries are HUGE.

playludesc · Feb 7, 2012

Lol, just found an Omni throttle body for $20 + $18 shipping, sweet!

http://thmotorsports.com/omni_power/omni_power_throttle_body/gastb70/i-281700.aspx

Kyleb1115 · Feb 7, 2012

not to sound like a dick, because honestly i think this is awesome and i want to follow it.. besides, any JRSC prelude build grabs my attention, but you are telling me that after all this time and money you spent (you are already in as deep or deeper into the money pit as i am) you should be wanting to make way over 325. like you said, and like my tuner said, he said if i ran e85 i would be around 330, if thats all you want, i would honestly rethink some of the stuff you are buying. saying your car will breathe and this and that better might be true (granted i do have the highest rated intake for the car) but you wont be seeing any. i hope you at least make good tq. for almost the cost of your build, i can get my stroker h22 and be at almost 400 with just pump gas, easily over 400 with e85.

i dont want to discourage you or anything, it just seems a little overkill thats all, especially given that that JRSC kit can handle much more. if thats the case, want to trade? because i paid 900 bucks for my entire kit, lol. id love the modified one to use to its full potential on my 2.49 L h22

plus with that auto tranny, subtract at least 20 whp that will be lost (unless you already figured that in, if so thats a little better) lol

and lastly, the one thing you said that DID actually bother me, was saying you will have a better tune, but honestly i went to one of the best tuners in the business, and he got more out of my car than i or anyone expected for the money that i put into it.. and that was with a crappy intake slipping belt and a clutch that would slip every other pull.

playludesc · Feb 7, 2012

I just hate turbos : /

From what I understand getting into the 300+ club is pretty rare with a JRSC. Maybe you found better deals on your parts, but this stuff is necessary for e85. The 325 is really rough, but it should be more than possible with this setup. No one has done this with e85 with our cars (except Geramy, who had much lower compression), so I really can't predict exactly (see sig).

The reason I'm consciously stopping myself at 325 (in Stage 1) is because the stock pistons won't handle anything more. The ringlands are way too weak. Once I have the Mahles and the Crower rods, I'll turn up the boost and I should make it into the 400+whp zone.

Regarding the tune thing, I mean no offense when I say my tune will be better, but it's true. I'll be able to spend solid weeks on my tune, tweaking everything, experimenting, spending hours a night, literally dozens, maybe hundreds of pulls until it's perfect. I don't doubt that your tuner is one of the best around--and he sure as hell did a better job than I'll be able to in three/four hours--but because I'll have as much time as I need to get it perfect, it will eventually result in a better tune. Imagine fixing the belts the clutch and giving it to Evans Tuning to tune for a solid month and then imagine the tune you would have.

Stages 2 and 3 I simply don't have the money for yet, but when I do, that's when you'll see the bigger numbers I want.

Also, I don't mean any offense in the comparisons I've made to your build. There have just been a lot of doubters along the way saying that even 300whp with a JRSC is ridiculously high number. I just wanted to display what you had done, the numbers you've made, and contrast them with what I plan to do.

Lastly, why aren't you running e85? You've got the injector size for it and you could get rid of the meth injection.

Kyleb1115 · Feb 7, 2012

i completely understand. that makes a bit more sense. and im not taking offence to anything, i dont think you meant it that way, i just wanted to point it out. honestly, i never even intended to make much over 250. i was pretty happy to make it to 276. the reason i am not running e85, is simply because of the lack of readily available e85 stations. we have some, one in a decent spot, but i drive my car allot, and it would make my car less driveabe. i plan to go e85 when the stations get more available.

playludesc · Feb 7, 2012

I'm glad you took no offense, and I hope your e85 situation gets better! You could always have two maps, if your EMS supports it, and just switch it to gasoline if you ever have to fill up somewhere that doesn't serve it.

playludesc · Feb 7, 2012

A question to the experienced: what will happen when I blow my ringlands? I'll lose compression and I'll get a ton of piston slap at the minimum, but what else is at risk?

Boosted00SH · Feb 7, 2012

you think because you can spend time on your tune it will be better? time does not egual knowledge....

playludesc · Feb 7, 2012

Oh, so Evans was born knowing how to tune? You mean he didn't have to spend any time learning it? You mean I could spend all the time in the world researching and experimenting and documenting and never gain any knowledge?

Get the fuck out of here. Tuning is not some arcane science that only wizards and elves can master.

GoldLudeRay · Feb 7, 2012

when the ring lands fail it smoke alot....you can smoke so much you will get pulled over by the cops....and if the slap is bad enough...you can wear on the cyclinder walls...and if that get's bad enough you can drop a piston and take a crank and cyclinder head out in that cyclinder....

on cast pistons with this kinda of power...tunning will be best left too a professionall that knows about boost....you can destroy a motor very quickly

playludesc · Feb 7, 2012

Oh, that's good news, actually. I'll have some warning before anything else is damaged, with any luck.

zuptidi · Feb 7, 2012

im a diy tuner also, however i started on a stock h22a4, which is very forgiving.
In your case, i would learn to tune with what you have now, then when u feel comfortable move up to supercharger setup

playludesc · Feb 7, 2012

That's the plan! Boomslang harness came in today, so I'll be tweaking (gently) soon. Then I'll get everything installed, switch to e85, and tune her with the belts off. Then, I'm thinking I might get a 6psi cog/timing belt set up and tune on that. I might keep her at 6psi for awhile and get everything perfect. Then I'll do a bit of weight reduction and safety and see how I feel.

WHP is just a number.

GoldLudeRay · Feb 7, 2012

under most conditions yes....like my car i spray a 100shot on e85 on stock piston's alot with not many issue's went lean a few times got the issues sorted out and ran some nice pass's...i went back for a professional re tune on a 150shot and the first pull made 390whp on sally like timimng....tuner gave it some more timing too make more power,,and the pull was fine and made 401whp on that pull and afterwards it smoked like no tomorow...and the dyno is easier on thecar than ripping through the gears....the ring lands were shot...

theese tunner's learn by mistakes trust me they have blown set-ups and you will as well if your pushing for 300whp too quickly...especially through an auto they make less power...i understand wanting too learn how too tune...if you got a decent basemap put on the car(there cheap) and then made your own changes this would speed the process up and you can look at how the basemaps was and get slowly more agressive with it....that would be the best way for learning and a do it yourself deal...

PirateMcFred · Feb 7, 2012

One local professional tuner had a mishap on the dyno:

His 600hp Turbo B18 popped at 9500rpm after a nitrous backfire. He broke 3 rods and perforated all the pistons not to mention the block; ruined everything. He was 'self educated' but cut his teeth on his own car/engine before working on customers' cars. He also didn't have his car financed through his credit card.

I too am a DIYer. I'm happy to see you learning the ropes and wish you luck but if you don't have disposable income to sink into your only mode of transportation I'd err on the caution and work on a rainy day fund.

If you intend to push the envelope on a DIY tune I'd recommend using a real dynamometer, wideband O2 sensor and an EGT sensor, run conservative ign. timing and add it back on the dyno to keep the exhaust temps down. It'll reduce the chance of detonation and keep from roasting those exhaust valves.

Most importantly, have fun.

-P

Kyleb1115 · Feb 8, 2012

even with the bypass open, the car does not get enough air. and im glad to hear that about the ringlands, i was kind of under the impression that when they go, im stuck, but most likely if they go (on the street) it wont be so bad that i wont be able to get the car somewhere...

playludesc · Feb 8, 2012

I'm not sure that's quite right, the supercharger is still sucking in tons of air and pushing it into the IM, it's just that most of the positive pressure escapes and recirculates. There's a good chance you know better on that topic than I do, though.

Apex1972 · Feb 8, 2012

and thats that!

playludesc · Feb 8, 2012

Our relationship wouldn't be so bad if you didn't stubbornly refuse to open your mind to new data and information, especially new data and information on which you have no first hand experience yourself.

Your input conflicted with everything I was reading about people who actually have superchargers, so I challenged your input. You took that challenge poorly because of your own overconfidence. Because of either your unwillingness or inability to support your claims about heat soak and half a dozen other criticisms, I have decided to disregard your input, not because it conflicts with my own ideas, but because it conflicts with the ideas, data, and results of people who know more about my situation than you. I'm not convinced I'm right, I'm convinced they're right. Because your speculation contradicts their evidence it is more logical for me to put my faith in them.

Sure tuning will be an experience, but I don't understand why everyone treats tuners as if they actually are wizards. As with most processes and learning, one of the hardest parts is nutting up and convincing yourself that this is something that you will eventually be able to handle. Mistakes will be made, but a person with a sense of precaution and care can minimize those mistakes. I didn't spend 4 months researching my build to just hook up my EMU and advance timing thirty degrees and lean out my AFR to 20:1.

Kyleb1115 · Feb 8, 2012

im saying if you remove the belts. when you remove the belts, the JRSC stops spinning therefore very little air gets through there (though i have actually seen mine spin slowly with no belt, it spins just from the motor sucking air through). if you remove the belts and just leave the bypass open, the bypass is only like 1.5 inches across, much smaller than a throttle body. at low RPM and idle, its fine, but when you step on the gas (if you were to tune it) it will maybe not bog, but just wont run very good as it will be starving for air. the bypass really does not give the motor any extra air at idle and low rpm, but its main job is to just recirculate the air, since the jrsc is forcing in more air than the motor possibly needs at idle. this keeps the car out of boost. it is not a secondary intake by no means. im pretty sure as long as the charger is spinning at idle/low rpm, the car is getting plenty of air.

playludesc · Feb 8, 2012

I meant to leave the belts on and zip-tie the bypass valve open. That way the SC is still pushing air, but most of it is escaping.

GoldLudeRay · Feb 8, 2012

kyle is right...my personal dd car a mr2sc has a cluched type supercharger that is electronicly/magenticly enguaged and when you by pass the factory kick on setting the car cant even red line and is a turd cause of the restrisction in the roots style supercharger..it had a bypass i meeded with at this point and it was still a turd seriously like had a top speed of like 80mph and could barely make it up hills....and when the supercharger locked up and wouldnt free spin it cut even more power from the car and had like a top speed of 50mph at this point...i had too replace the supercharger on it the car wasnt even driveable...the point here is there an extreme restrisction in the intake path...you can try and tune the car off the charger but its gonna be a complete turd....you will be better off learning too tune on the stock im with no charger on it

playludesc · Feb 8, 2012

Vibrant header has arrived! Updated parts list.

Geprodis · Feb 8, 2012

Awesome man. I also prefer the SC to the turbo (from what I've researched). The SC sounds so beautiful. Totally jealous of your JRSC pickup. I hope when I have the funds I can hunt one down.

This is the sound I'm talking about:

playludesc · Feb 8, 2012

Geprodis said:
Awesome man. I also prefer the SC to the turbo (from what I've researched). The SC sounds so beautiful. Totally jealous of your JRSC pickup. I hope when I have the funds I can hunt one down.

This is the sound I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6at7PKDUeM&feature=related

Thanks! I'm really excited to hear that sound coming from my bay. There's a b18 around here somewhere with Whipple or a Vortech on it, it sounds amazing.

playludesc · Feb 9, 2012

Injectors, rail, and pressure regulator came today--as well as the carbon fiber for the intake!

playludesc · Feb 10, 2012

Intake Manifold came in today! This will let me practice with the modifications I plan to make, and if I don't fuck anything up, it will allow me to do a straight swap, minimizing the time I have to spend bent over the Prelude as well as it's down time.

Look at what that mean, nasty EGR System did to it!

Playludesc's e85 Supercharger Build

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