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Should I swap the 4WS onto my 88' lude?

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys I'm having a hell of a time trying to decide on whether or not I should outfit my 88 lude with 4ws. As most of you know I'm working out the h22 swap on this guy and I'm not sure whether or not the 4ws is worth the extra work. I personally kind of wanted it but everybody and their uncle is telling me it's not worth it, etc, etc.

I need 3rd genner's opinions and comments as to it's practicality

Yes I've searched and yes, I have the front rack, the shaft, and the rear rack and frame. All I'd need would be the new bolts and the 4-way plastic piece and the hose.

Also, anyone know where to find rebuild kits for these guys? I have no idea where they've been and if I put them into use I don't want to them going out on my in a year. I've found a rebuild kit for the front 4ws rack but absolutely nothing for the rear gearbox. Thanks guys.
 

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Dude....you see how many 4ws's I have???

Nuff said...
 

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I'm pretty sure the only people who will tell you it's not worth it are those who have tried it once or twice but daily drive a 2WS car. Trust me, after a few months of nothing but 4WS, taking a 2WS car on the freeway you can definitely notice the difference in lane-change body roll. It quickly becomes second nature to feel the back end pre-empt your every move, instead of laggy following.
 

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from a guy who doesnt have it currently.... Sell it to me.. or put it on...
 

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I've owned 4 ludes with 4WS, and two days ago I drove my new parts car that does not have 4WS.

I was quite suprised that the difference was so big. What I wrote right after driving it:

Tie rods and or steering rack is worn, it's got some torque steer even at very light throttle. Well, that's not a good word, it actually doesn't pull at the wheel, but if you let go, step a bit on the gas then let off, you can see the wheel turning by itself about an inch.

The car is quicker to turn in it seems, but it also leans more since the front wheels turn, the nose darts to one side then the body rolls and plays catch-up.
The 4WS version of this car is noticeably more composed and stable.
 

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First problem...

There is no option for just "Idiot"
lol

So it'll have to be a "No" with provisos.

Yuo have the front rack ?
It's worth putting that in to get the better steering ratio.
Leave the rest off.

In reply to others who have said " See how many 4WS I have "
Well I currently have 2.
Had 10 or so ,and had a few 2WS.
I'd still have the 2WS over the 4WS amost days of the week.
But I suspect yours is going to stay a road car so maybe the 4WS would be OK for you.

Either is still a great car though so only you can really decide.
 

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88SE Lude said:
First problem...

There is no option for just "Idiot"
lol

So it'll have to be a "No" with provisos.

Yuo have the front rack ?
It's worth putting that in to get the better steering ratio.
Leave the rest off.

In reply to others who have said " See how many 4WS I have "
Well I currently have 2.
Had 10 or so ,and had a few 2WS.
I'd still have the 2WS over the 4WS amost days of the week.
But I suspect yours is going to stay a road car so maybe the 4WS would be OK for you.

Either is still a great car though so only you can really decide.
You would rather 2WS any day of the week? Are you high?
 

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you gotta do the 4WS...once you have 4WS (if you havent had it before), you're gonna wonder how you ever went so long without it
 

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1991SI said:
You would rather 2WS any day of the week? Are you high?
Not at the moment no, why d osome peopel think that anythign different is always better, get real FFS.
I'm not going into it all again here so either search or just accepot the fact that people have different needs/opinions than you do.
 

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I think a lot of us are actually curious why you'd say 2WS over 4WS. I know a 2WS car will point the nose quicker than a 4WS system, that's a feature of the design. With 4WS there's a very nice understeer until you start pointing the rears in the opposite direction (about 180° from center). I actually can't stand the instant nose-point that 2WS cars do before the back end starts following. Explain your reasoning?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This car is going to be a daily driven summer vehicle with far more power than it can handle at the wheels.

I've never had the luxury of driving a 4WS Lude more than 10 feet into a service bay but I've always liked the idea.

My biggest concern is where these racks have been and how much non-Honda power steering fluid has destroyed them. I don't want to pull these again in a year or two so if I can find rebuild kits for them then I'll have even more of a reason to put a Brand-New 4WS setup on.

You say you feel the vehicle understeer a little more before the rear catches up? I would much rather have oversteer than understeer! How much harder is the vehicle to handle at excessive speeds? Does it want to spin out more than the 2WS version? Will it in any way be a negative factor if say, street racing or just being a plain idiot in traffic?

And I really would love to hear why you'de rather have a 2WS over a 4WS. I've only ever driven 2WS vehicles and I hear such negativity and stupid things about 4WS and how it was so pointless and retarded that they stopped making it as quickly as they started. To those people I just grab my baseball bat...
 

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Don't really have time or inclination right now tbh . it is 3:30 AM after all .
And I'vr said it quite a few times on here already anyway.
4WS is great for a purely road car. As I said above.
My car is a track car. 2WS is better.
Somewhere in the middle there is a point where one becomes better tha nthe other, only the driver can decide where this point is.
People almost always form their opinions without testing either option to it's full extent. I have decided which I prefer and the reasons over many years of road and track driving.

The 4WS is great for parking and is slightly better in some aspects of high-speed driving. But due to it's very nature is less pure and controllable at the limits.
It also makes it much harder ot set-up the geometry properly. I am talking about setting it up proeprly here, not setting it up to stock settings. Getting the best performance from a car means using different geomotry settings such as using camber, and non-parallel toe settings on the rear. This is where it becomes difficult as you have to try and accoint for the changing toe on the rear so you are always being compromised by it.
There's also the extra weight.
I've got so accustomed to it beign there tha tit's dropping down my list of thinsg to remove as a priority but I still prefer the 2WS every time I use it.

Yes I appreciate that 99.9% of people here never get anywhere near the car's limits or will ever go onto a track but as I said, somewhere there is a middle ground where one becomes preferable, the indivdual needs to decide exactly whee that is and which side of that he wants to be on.

The points about it being pointless do have some validity tbh. Honda used the Prelude (hence the name) to show off it's enginuity to develop and produce new ideas and put them on production cars. And as we know, not all new ideas are worth prolonging.

But rest assured that our mechanical version is so much better than the screwed up electronically controlled version in the later models.


As for rebuilding the rack .Would make sense.
Do you not have a place tha twill recon it for you? Might work out easier/cheaper than trying to get the parts and do it yourself.
 

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J-Willie said:
You say you feel the vehicle understeer a little more before the rear catches up? I would much rather have oversteer than understeer! How much harder is the vehicle to handle at excessive speeds? Does it want to spin out more than the 2WS version? Will it in any way be a negative factor if say, street racing or just being a plain idiot in traffic?
Yes. At low steering inputs, the car will understeer compared to a 2WS car. For example, going around a 25mph corner at 25mph, a 2WS car you would turn the wheel ~45°, the nose would point, and you'd turn. On a 4WS car, 45° doesn't point the nose that much, so you have to actually turn the wheel more (~60°-90°) to get around slow, small turns. It's very controllable though, not like traction understeer.

On the freeway, say you're going 75mph when this guy cuts you off. There's room in the lane over, so you avoid rear-ending this guy by quickly changing lanes. In a 2WS car, you'd throw the wheel left 30° to point the nose, then all the way right 30° before straightening again, and I'm sure we're all familiar with how much body roll you experience from such a manoeuvre. But with 4WS, because the back wheels are doing the same as the front wheels around 30° steering input, the rear follows instantly, reducing body roll and making it a safer manoeuvre.

Hell, it's all in the brochure.
http://mustardcat.brinkster.net/p3g/Documentation/Articlesads/UKCatalog/3glude_11.jpg

The understeer at small inputs makes the car very controllable at high speeds, and the excessive oversteer (when the rear wheel turn the opposite direction) makes tight corners, u-turns, and parking fun EVERY TIME. And isn't it nice to have fun while having some lady in an SUV flip you off because you manoeuvred into her spot quicker than her behemoth could?

The steering does not affect wheel slip at all, and you wouldn't notice it going in a straight line (duh). But when weaving in and out of high-speed traffic, you know it's there, making the car more stable as you throw your ass all over the road.
 

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:jehon: Here we go, another pointless thread. Not to be a prick or anything man. People ask the dumbest questions.

What size/color/weight wheels should I get?

What should be my next mod?

What color should I paint my car?

Should I get rid of my car?

What engine should I get?

These are decisions you can make yourself. You don't need to have your hand held through your own decisions.

Again, not being a prick, just do what you want to do. It's your car. Different strokes for different folks. Some people will be for it and some won't. Do what will work for you. Good luck man. :emthup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Having never driven a 4WS Prelude and having specific wants from this vehicle, how in any way in this a stupid question? I need to know how this affects the driving under certain conditions. Adding 4WS to the Prelude is essentially making it a completely different vehicle and I don't have the luxury of experiencing it myself so I ask others who have. I don't see how asking about 4WS has any similarities to what engine I should get or what kind of wheels to buy. Sorry but I've seen far more pointless threads than mine. Thanks.

Oh yea and before I forget, What color should I paint my windshield wipers? I was thinking like a baby pink or a glow-in-the-dark neon... not sure what would make my car the fastest
 

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J-Willie said:
I don't see how asking about 4WS has any similarities to what engine I should get or what kind of wheels to buy. Sorry but I've seen far more pointless threads than mine. Thanks.
hondalude89 said:
:jehon: Here we go, another pointless thread. Not to be a prick or anything man. People ask the dumbest questions.

What size/color/weight wheels should I get?

What should be my next mod?

What color should I paint my car?

Should I get rid of my car?

What engine should I get?
R_E_A_D! I said people, not you, ask different questions like the ones above. They all fall into the same category.

It's mostly going to be your choice or anyone's else choice for that matter on what is done.

I realize that there is a change from 2WS to 4WS. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. There are countless topics covering the pros and cons of this swap/mod. Different opinions on this.

For one, I too, have never experienced the 4WS system, but I have read others' experiences with it here and I didn't even have to start another thread about it asking if I should do it or not. I pretty much picked that up from what research I have done on here and made up my own mind.

I'm just saying that it's pretty much going to be your choice on the matter regardless of what others think. That could have been figured out without another opinion thread that just clogs the board.
 

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i hate reading these 2ws vs 4ws threads.

im going to speak from personal experience as someone who has DONE THE SWAP from 2ws to 4ws. yes thats right folks, my car was 2ws when i bought it in june 2002, and i changed it over in october 2005.

im going to be perfectly honest here. Before i did hte swap, i was considering buying another car, like a miata or something. something that handles really well so that i could play really hard with it. Then I did the 4ws swap...and i've fallen in love with the car all over again. I never want to have another car.

added weight? how much? like....30 lbs extra? not entirely sure how much it weighs but it's not like we're building a brick shithouse in there. a couple pounds isnt a lot to me, remove the spare tire, get a c/f hood and put a couple racing seats and you've more than made up for the 'weight difference' and who the fuck cares? you have to shed 100lbs to gain 1 TENTH of a SECOND in the 1/4 mile. think about that.

and about that comment about 4ws being less reliable? my mechanic is a honda specialist, he's worked on honda cars exclusively for 15 years. After I did the 4ws swap i was tellin him about what i went through, he said 'man you know more about the 4 wheel steering than I do, we've never had to work on a 4ws rack' they come in and out of there all the time but the 3rd gen 4ws has never had any troubles.

christ, im getting into it again.....ill stop now.
 
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