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Suspension Rebuild Issues – Spindle Nut stuck/LCA Ball joint ? / inner - outter tie rod assembly?

Hi y’all. I am in the middle of suspension rebuild. More on that later. But, here are my immediate issues.

Spindle Nut frozen – I am trying to release the spindle, instead of breaking free and screwing off the HUB MOVES WITH THE SPINDLE NUT – not sure why that would happen. Me and a friend have been using a long-handle ratchet with a breaker bar with elbow grease with no luck. We’ve tried with the wheel up, wheel down under load, both of us working the breaker bar…

1. How would I loosen and unscrew? (impact gun? Safe to heat with Butane torch?)

2. Do I need to loosen it to replace ball joint?

LCA Ball Joint removal/replace – from the reviewing the threads on removing and replacing these, it seems these have to pressed into the seat on the spindle. I have seen a thread where someone wrote that you can pull out the CV axle, remove the snapring, and use balljoint remover to pop it out, seat the new one and reinstall. It is a MOOG AMG K9385 (D28-54597). Given that the upper controls are off, the tie rods are off the spindle, and the radius arms are off the lca which is still attached by the A-frame and engine..

1. What is the best way to remove and replace? (remove the spindle and press-in? Remove spindle/lca and press in? seat in with snapring and reinstall?)

2. The MOOG balljoint doesn’t appear to have any grease and I don’t see a fill-hole or access to fill it?

Inner – outer tie rod replace? – I have the following MOOG tie rod parts – Tie Rod End ES2942RL, Inner Tie Rod EV194. Also have new hardware from Honda to replace on the inners.From looking at them, MOOG sent me two different inner tie rods with the same product number. I’ll have to work that out with them. But when I compare them to the inner tie rods on the Prelude with the MOOGs, they don’t seem to be the same. The one on the car – passenger side (haven’t looked at the driver’s yet) – has a ball & socket on the rack-side with no place behind to screw it out. It looks like it’s a straight shaft that goes directly into the Power Steering Rack?..

1. On the ’89 4ws are the inner tie rods different on the passenger and driver sides or should they be the same?

2. How do you unscrew them out ? Or do you have work through the PS Rack?

3. Does anyone have experience with the MOOG ES2942RL? Instead of a straighe shaft end, it is a ball/socket – so the suspension can pivot/flex around the tie rod end – with a zirkes to fill with grease.

4. After looking at the inner tie rods, they are tight and in good shape and would not need to be replaced other than I paid for the MOOG parts and would thing they would be stonger than the OEM parts assuming they are the right one for the car. So, replace or not/

Here’s the rest of the rebuild:
1. Cudaboy front / rear STBs (not installed)
2. New/used UCA with Prothane 8-204 bushings pressed in and MOOG upper ball joints (installed, not attached to suspension setup yet)
3. New/used LCA with Honda OEM bushings pressed in (not installed yet)
4. MOOG Ball joints (not installed yet)
5. MOOG inner/outter Tie Rods (not installed yet)
6. Whitline front sway bar (not installed yet)

I really want to get these issues figured out. Because of the price - and hopefully quality – of all these parts, it took me some time to get everything together. And, I have not been able to drive the car. I relly want to get it back on the road with the refreshed suspension.

Thanks for the help.
 

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I'll address what I can.
Spindle Nut frozen
1. How would I loosen and unscrew? (impact gun? Safe to heat with Butane torch?)

2. Do I need to loosen it to replace ball joint?
Yes the hub does move with the nut, that's how power is transmitted to the wheels. :p
The solution is MOAR force. These things can be a pain. I used a 1/2" drive breaker bar with a 4' cheater on it. A big impact gun might work too. Avoid heat because the wheel bearing is right there. Don't open that can of worms unless your wheel bearing needs replacing anyways.

This is best done on the ground. Since it seems the car is already somewhat disassembled, you might need to have your buddy stand on the brakes. You will need to loosen the axle nut to get at the lower ball joint, no matter what.

1. What is the best way to remove and replace? (remove the spindle and press-in? Remove spindle/lca and press in? seat in with snapring and reinstall?)
Yes, I would definitely remove the knuckle from the car. I don't see how you would press in the new BJ without being able to access it properly. I "pressed" mine carefully with a 4lb sledgehammer and a block of wood, it takes a certain amount of persuasion. I froze the BJ for good measure. Used normal pliers for the snap rings. So ghetto.

Haven't worked with my inner tie rods yet, but someone should be able to speak to that...
 

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Thanks for the info. Brakes are also off ... so only brakegaurd and hub on the front. SO I'M GUESSING I'LL HAVE TO TRY THE IMPACT GUN. ANY IDEA HOW BIG OF A IMPACT GUN?
 

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My Ingersol Rand 1/2" impact can get the axle nuts off my car. I forget how many ft/lb of torque it has though.

For future reference though, if you insert a large screwdriver into one of the rotor vents, the brake caliper will keep the hub from turning while you break the axle nut loose. I use this method when I'm at the junkyard along with a 1/2" breaker bar and 4 foot cheater. I have always been able to remove them this way.
 

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make sure you've knocked the drift out of the nut.

there's a notch in the axle end, and usually part of the nut has been hammered into it to lock the nut. you generally want to pry that bit back out before you try to unscrew it.

car on the ground, big ass breaker, and a buddy on the brake pedal is the easiest way to knock them off without power tools. car off the ground and buddy on the brakes is the next best way. everything else might work, but risks damaging other bits.


Lower ball joints generally come out with the spindle off the car. you have to pull the dust ring off the back of the bearing before you can push the BJ up. hammering it out is easy. hammering the new one is not. some people use C-Clamps and a couple sockets to pretend to be a press.

outer tie rods are easy at this point. inners thread into the rack rod just inboard of the joint itself. there is a flat washer folded around the flat sides as a lock. bend it flat, and you can unscrew the tierod end from the rack rod.

 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks ... new ? about inner tie rods?

Thanks... I'll give this a try. I believe i'm going to go ahead and get an impact gun - 1/2" Ingersoll Rand - since everything is off and the car is up in the air. If i use the impact wrench, should be able to break the spindle nut free by myself or does the stand on the brakes, load on opposit side still apply?

Also, when we started to work on the inner tie rods my buddy pulled off the transfer tubes off the bellows - is air in the power steering now? and the bellows ripped in half. is there an easy fix for this.
 

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bellows can be bought at hondapartsnow.com as far as I know or sons honda. They are also available aftermarket from rockauto.com
 

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Thanks... I'll give this a try. I believe i'm going to go ahead and get an impact gun - 1/2" Ingersoll Rand - since everything is off and the car is up in the air. If i use the impact wrench, should be able to break the spindle nut free by myself or does the stand on the brakes, load on opposit side still apply?

Also, when we started to work on the inner tie rods my buddy pulled off the transfer tubes off the bellows - is air in the power steering now? and the bellows ripped in half. is there an easy fix for this.
transfer tube is rarely under pressure, so you probably don't have a problem. if you did draw air, it'll bleed itself out as soon as you start using the system.

replace the bellows, yourhondapart.com or anywhere else, really. i don't try to replace the metal bands that hold them in place because it is a stone bitch to use the OE version. One or two good zip ties is enough for my lazy ass.
 

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no air in the power steering the vacuum hose is just there to move the air from one side to the other while compressing the boot in operation.
 

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schley makes a tool to be used with an air/chisel/hammer if you have a compressor and any cheap air hammer you can remove and install the lower ball joints yourself. Its like $90 shipped on amazon. Get the one with part number ending in A as it is the upgraded version.


Or leave it to a professional to press in. up to you. It has been documented that some people have got lower ball joints without grease. Take two thumbs or index and middle finger and press boot down around ball joint and black grease should come up out around stud. If not take back or carefully unclip boot and pack with grease. My grease of choice is mobil 1 synthetic but everybody has different favorites. Some like marine. Out of curiosity does your ball joint come from japan. I got one off amazon and it didn't say moog on the dust boot like the ones I got a year or two ago and it was from japan. Also the dust boot didn't look like the older ones I had previously got that were moog assembled in mexico. Didn't have the bright brass cover plate either. The ones that were assembled in mexico were either polyurethane or silicone. Some blue some black. As far as the upper front ball joint by moog they have always been rubber dust boots and made by 555. I have seen this same 555 brand on japanese website. Their is a rear lower ball joint from an accord I believe that fits perfectly. Search for my thread titled "Ball Joints" for part number.

EDIT: Here is the link for ball joint moog part numbers:
http://www.preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335646&highlight=ball+joints

Like Psycho said make sure you take a punch or at least a flat head screw driver you don't care about and push out the hammered in dent into axle gap on axle nut from when it was installed and make sure you dent your new nuts when done.
 

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To anyone who has made it this far looking for help getting the inner tie rods off....remember to turn your wheel all the way to the right/left to give yourself better access to the inner tie rod. I spent quite some time working the hard way lmao, lesson learned and posted here for your benefit!
 

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schley makes a tool to be used with an air/chisel/hammer if you have a compressor and any cheap air hammer you can remove and install the lower ball joints yourself. Its like $90 shipped on amazon. Get the one with part number ending in A as it is the upgraded version.
some power tool porn
 

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Yeah that is in my oddball and large tool thread in the F.A.Q. I have it and have used it. It works great. Just make sure you remove the snap ring from the ball joint if it still has one.
 

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Also, on the bellows...I ordered a pair for a 92-96 Lude for 11.23 shipped off ebay and used a large hose clamp on the inner-most seal. Worked perfectly, vacuum hose and all.
 
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