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[Project Car] 1986 Prelude "Lucy"

4K views 46 replies 5 participants last post by  Sam91 
#1 ·
I purchased the car listed in this post:
Decided to call it "Lucy". It does have rust, but the rust isn't as bad as I expected. Of course I can always find more rust after taking things apart, which is often the case. We'll see, but I'm optimistic.
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#2 ·
Looking under the car the first thing I noticed is the exhaust was hacksawed off before the catalytic converter. Not sure why that was done. The engine bay has an extra addon. After doing some research I determined it's a Travel Cruise OEM Replica Series Datsun cruise control device. Very interesting, but stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the culprit for the performance issues. The installation job looks sketchy.
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#3 · (Edited)
Put in a new battery and started Lucy up. It started then immediately turned off. When I use starting fluid it does run off the starting fluid and then shut off. The fuel pump for this car should make a regular clicking noise while it's pumping, which I don't hear, so either the fuel pump or the wiring to it is bad. The tank is 1/4 full and hopefully that gas is still good.

Edit: If something is blocking fuel from flowing down the line, the pump won't click. That turned out to be the case.
 
#4 ·
I tested the wiring to the pump and it does have voltage. I tested the pump itself by jumping 12V power to it and it does click a couple times, indicating that it works. Next I did a flow test, to verify that the pump isn't weak. I removed the fuel hose after the filter in the engine bay, then jumped the pump again and I do get fuel flowing out. (I also noted that the fuel filter is way way past its expiration date.) So the fuel pump is running but the engine doesn't run unless I give it starting fluid. That implies to me that the problem is with the carburetor. There isn't a mixture screw on this carb (thanks California) so I can't play with that. Maybe the valve in the carbs is stuck closed so no fuel is getting in the float bowl? I removed the air cleaner to inspect the carburetors and noticed there is this black gunk that looks like oil sludge. At this point I think the carbs are messed up, so the next step is to replace the carbs. I have a pair of webers ready to go so now is the perfect opportunity to use them.

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#5 ·
Removed the carburetor and the intake manifold. It's not that hard until it comes to the bottom middle bolt on the intake manifold. The problem is the intake manifold is in the way of the intake manifold nut so it's hard to get a tool in that you can then move enough to loosen the bolt. I wanted to use a crowfoot wrench, which is an attachment for a ratchet. I have a crowfoot wrench set, but it doesn't have the 12mm adapter. 🔫:mad: I doubt if the crowfoot would have worked anyway since there's a nipple for the PCV hose that is also in front of the nut, but it would have been nice to try. I tried using a wrench with a flexable head but turning it while keeping the head on the nut was too difficult. What worked for me is this: remove the air cleaner, remove the blowby chamber, remove the carb, remove the air cleaner support beam next to the black PCV box, unbolt the PCV box, remove the top hose on the box, then pop it out of the engine and pull it back. Take an offset 12mm wrench and remove the nut.

Lord have mercy may nobody have an intake manifold gasket leak on this car.

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#6 ·
I finished bolting in the new carbs. Turned out to be a bit more difficult because the bolt holes were just a few millimeters off so I had to make them a bit bigger with a drill. The port for the brake booster is too long and it bumps into the engine, so I had to find an L-shaped adapter. The lever on the linkage for the throttle cable bumps into the engine so I'll have to move things around to a placement that works.

I plugged some of the nipples for coolant and rigged something for the temperature sensor attachment. I'm not happy with the setup yet. It's going to take some trial and error, plus me measuring things and buying hose adapters online, until I'm satisfied. One thing I hate is having to go to a hardware/autoparts store and trying to rig together some series of adapters in the hopes of making things fit. Some things you can only find online.

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#7 ·
Tried starting it. It takes a few tries but it can start and run. The problem is it runs badly and it's backfiring out of the intake. The passenger side carb regularly puffs out fuel/smoke/fire. Also it's very loud because the exhaust pipe was cut before the cat. I made a modest attempt to tune the carbs but I'm new to that process and haven't gotten any results. The gas is at least a year old, so to rule that out as a problem I drained it all out and put in a few gallons of fresh high-octane gas, plus a bit of seafoam. No change. Apparently backfiring out of the carbs is caused by either bad timing or very lean air/fuel mixture. At least there's progress. It does run, but poorly.

The next step is to send it off to get a new exhaust pipe. If I tune the carbs, then add an exhaust, I'd have to tune it again, so I'll go ahead and get a new exhaust bolted/welded on. After that it'll be a process of diagnosing why it isn't performing right and fixing it.
 
#8 ·
Ooooh man this brings back memories! Nice work so far.
 
#10 ·
Timing? Didn't have to to change it much, would have to look at my old posts, but Rjudgy (or something like that) stated a good timing setting that I was using.
Are you using the vacuum advance? I think I remember not using and just capping that off.

What choke size, idle and main jet sizes are you running?
 
#11 ·
Timing? Didn't have to to change it much, would have to look at my old posts, but Rjudgy (or something like that) stated a good timing setting that I was using.
Are you using the vacuum advance? I think I remember not using and just capping that off.
For now I have it capped. I do have nipples for the weber carbs that I'll add later.

What choke size, idle and main jet sizes are you running?
I just purchased a pair of Weber 40 DCOE from ebay and bolted them on. Whatever comes stock is what's on there.
 
#12 ·
Ah ok. For timing as a start you should be ok at least to start with +10-15 deg (no vacuum advance). Once you get the carbs tuned you can advance little by little untill you get best results. Wonder how not having an exhaust connected could be affecting it though, bets to get that fixed first.

Those carbs are hardly a "bolt on mod" that we enjoy with modern cars, those bad boys require a lot of tune/test cycles to make run right (which is where the fun is!!). I had DCOE 40's on my car as well, ran well for the most part but we're a bit rich the the top end, never fixed that... You will want to pull and check the chokes, idle jets and main jets. If your timing is good maybe you are running lean. I would suggest buying a jet kit with assorted sizes to tune it up, and might as well go up to the max choke size while your at it (38mm) I think. The chokes and jets can easily be removed and checked with the carbs mounted, to the engine no worries.

Once you know your choke size, start with the idle jets, those jets run the engine up to about 3000rpm before the main jets take over. Tune the idle jets first for best idle and low rpm performance, then move to the mains.
 
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#13 ·
Worth mentioning is that first you will need to ballance the carbs. There should be an adjuster on the throttle linkage for that. You can do it by using some PVC pipe about the size of those velocity stacks with a right angle connection. Stick the pipe into the drivers side carb then the passenger side carb with your ear on the other end. As you adjust the ballance on the linkage, listen for tone changes through the tube and get both carbs sounding the same. Once they are about equal, your good to move on to tuning.
 
#15 ·
Lol even better. The airflow will be far more precise. If I get a chance over the next couple of days I'll check the jets I was running to help give you a baseline. I still have the carbs and manifold but will likely sell them, been holding on to them for 15 years!!!
 
#17 · (Edited)
Idle jets. 60/f9
Emulsion tubes f16
Main jets 135
Pump jets 40

Since I assume your motor is mostly stock you may need to be a bit smaller than that. Perhaps 50/f9 idles to get started? Running weber DCOE 40s, choke size 40mm (custom modified 36mm was biggest available) and size 6 Venturi.

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#18 ·
That helps me out a great deal. The motor on Lucy is stock (and staying that way :coffee:) so I'm guessing the jet sizes will be different from what you have. On the site Weber jetting calculator they do recommend similar settings. I'm going to order those parts. The exhaust system is finally done (only took two months :rolleyes:) so once those jets arrive I can start tuning!

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#19 ·
Excellent, should be a good start. You might find 135 main jet a bit big, but on the other hand in Alberta our altitude is fairly high at 3000ft, so might be a contributing factor, for me needing smaller. Most of the big Weber guys would run 140 and bigger on their A18's back when I was tuning.

I had full header to 2.25" exhaust and a Colt stage 2 cam, no head work. I do remember needing "resistorless" sparkplugs for best combustion, so look into that too. If you search that term on this forum you should find a part number to use.
 
#20 ·
After a day of trying different things on the carbs to diagnose the problem, I eventually took a look at the spark plugs and did a compression test. Unfortunately that revealed cyl 3&4 are very low. That explains why it ran poorly and was backfiring out of one of the carbs, though I'm surprised it was able to run at all. It's not the end of the car, but now it needs a new engine. What really sucks is I didn't think to do this as soon as I got the car. If I did, I could have stuck the engine from the donor car I have in this one. I'll have to find a mechanic (oh boy here I go again...) that can find and swap in an engine for me. From what I see on car-part.com the engines are about $700 + shipping which isn't so bad.
 
#21 ·
Awww that sucks. Could pull the motor and get a local shop to rebuild, likely similar cost. Those motors are simple and relatively easy to pull, especially with all the stock carb crap out of the engine bay. Good luck!!
 
#22 · (Edited)
I decided to put the engine that I had in Miles into Lucy. So the engine that was in Donor got pulled and put into Miles, then pulled again and put into Lucy. A stupid waste of time and money. But Lucy now has a working engine.

Upon first run it became apparent that the thermostat was stuck because the upper radiator hose wasn't getting hot. A simple fix that turned into three hours because a bolt broke off in the housing.

Weber carbs are plugged into the engine. Did another compression test, just to make sure nothing crazy happened, and confirmed it still has OK compression. It starts, but runs rough. Cyl 1&2 aren't contributing unless I pull the starter circuit lever on the carb. It's probably caused by vacuum leaks. I reused the manifold gasket so maybe it's that. Or something else who knows. I'll try some techniques to find vacuum leaks. I may have to pull the carbs and reseat everything.

Here's a video of it running at its current state.
 
#23 ·
I did a bit of body work. The left taillight was busted so I finally got around to swapping in the replacement that was supplied by the seller. The left front fender was rusted, so I replaced that with a spare. There's still quite a bit of work left in fixing all these small penny sized rust spots all over the body.

I pulled out the carbs and manifold and discovered that I left the original gasket on. Woops! I removed it but it took some time and a razorblade. A total pain in the ass. Instead of using a premade gasket, this time I tried RTV high temp stuff, which should work. I noticed gas goo under the carbs where the carbs attach to the manifold, so that must have been leaking too. I tightened the bolts on the carbs which I hope fixed the issue. Maybe those O-ring gaskets are just trash and I need to put RTV on that too.

I started it up again and it does run better, but still runs rough. I'm making progress, but it's slow, since all this process of tuning/troubleshooting carbs is new to me.
 
#24 ·
Haven't done anything with the carbs since my last post. It's at a state where it can run well enough to drive around the block, and that'll do for now.

The car is from Minnesota, and the previous owner said it has been driven during winter at times, so when I purchased Lucy, I expected rust. There's some rust in the undercarrage, and some rusted through metal on the rear wheelwell, which is typical. There was a hole rusted through the left fender, which I already replaced. I am most concerned about the fuel filler pipe behind the gas cover, because if that's rusted through it's going to be a lot of work to fix. All that being said, I was expecting worse, but frankly as far as the frame goes, the rust isn't bad. I've seen worse and I've owned worse.

The big problem with rust, ironically, is all the surface rust. There are small rust spots all over the body. If there were a few, it'd be easy to deal with, but there must be over a hundred of them. They vary in size from a quarter to a pin head. Some places have long scratch marks, as if someone keyed it. There are a lot of spots, mostly on the roof and trunk, where the clearcoat and paint have worn off, but haven't rusted because the primer is still intact. It surprises me that a car from Minnesota has issues with paint failure.

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#25 ·
For the undercarrage I can spray wool wax or some other rust inhibitor to prevent it from getting worse. It's the undercarrage so it doesn't matter if it looks messy. For all the painted areas, I'll have to do more work to make it a paint-able surface. If it's surface rust, grind it out. If it's rusted through, cut it out.

I started the process of grinding out the rust spots with a dremel and grindstone. Then once its bare metal I spray some WD40 to keep it from flash rusting. (I'd rather use dry coat but stores don't carry it so whatever WD40 will work.) After all the rust it removed, I plan to apply Bondo gold body filler to areas that need it, sand the rest of the painted surfaces, and apply epoxy primer. From my research it should be OK to use epoxy primer on painted surfaces, but I don't know much about painting.

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#26 ·
I drove the car around a bit. Speedometer stopped working. I discovered that the mechanic that swapped the engine forgot to put the pin in the speedometer cable that keeps it in place, so the cable broke and I had to replace it. :mad: I hate paying money for shoddy work.

Almost all of the surface rust on the body is removed. There are some rust spots on the door by the trim pieces, but I have to remove the trim pieces to clear the rust. It took a long time because there are so many! I've never seen paint fail this way. With a paintbrush and UPOL bonding primer I touched up every bare spot. It looks ridiculous, but that should keep it from rusting while it sits in the garage.

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Obviously a full paint job is required. If I repainted it as-is that would result in noticeable dips in all the uneven spots caused by my rust removal. Stripping all the paint is an option, but that takes a lot of time. I think sanding the whole body, then repainting is the way to go. I've never repainted a car and this is an unusual circumstance so I really don't know what the best approach is. Maybe I should slap bumper stickers over every spot, then clearcoat the entire car.

I'm happy to say there are only a few spots that have rusted through. These are more of a concern because I have to cut out the part, then reconstruct the removed metal some way. The biggest area where this is the case is at the fuel filler neck. Water must have pooled behind the fuel door and caused all that rust. I'll have to cut out that rust spot, shape and attach some metal/plastic part to replace that metal, then reattach the fuel filler neck. I'm not looking forward to it, but at least I don't have to make it look pretty.

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#27 ·
The fuel filler neck housing rusted, so that required fixing. This is tricky to fix because it must be repaired in a way where water cannot get into the trunk. Water can come at it from the outside behind the gas lid, or from the inner wheel well, so it has to be sealed from both sides. What makes it even harder is it must have all the necessary holes and structural support to hold the fuel filler neck.

I started by removing the wheel and the fuel filler neck. (Of course I plugged up the rubber fuel hoses for safety.) I started by taking a dremel and grinding away the rust. Then I took navel jelly rust dissolver and pasted it over the rusted area to remove rust from various pits and groves that are hard to access. Then I sprayed the area with a water hose to remove dust and the navel jelly and let it dry. What remained was an area that had a lot of holes, but enough structure where I could fill it in. I took a sheet of fiberglass, cut out a hole for the fuel filler, then dipped the fiberglass in resin epoxy and pasted it over the area. Did this twice, for the front and back. I don't like using resin because it's sticky and viscus like corn syrup, so it makes a mess and tends to flow down. However, from my experience it makes a strong bond and with the metal/fiberglass backing it makes a decent structure. Once the resin cured, I drilled holes for the screws that were covered up, filled in any remaining gaps with silicone gel, then reinstalled the fuel filler neck.

The filler neck is attached to resin with fiberglass and metal backing. It's a bit risky to do this because the filler neck could cause the resin to stress and break, so I'm hoping there is enough metal to provide structural support. If this repair fails I'll have to do it again with a metal plate. As for it being watertight, I expect I'll have to go through one or more iterations of spraying water on it, then touching up with more silicone gel, to get at any remaining gaps.



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#29 ·
So frustrating that I managed to make the mistake that is often warned about in guides. All of them must have been written by people with a far more delicate touch. I have big powerful AMERICAN hands that can't feel the difference between resistance from the spring to resistance from metal contact. I'll have to learn to be extra careful. Anyway, I ordered new idle mixture screws which will arrive in a couple weeks. I'm going to try to drill/tap out the broken needle from above. If I break it more in the process I'll have to buy a new carb.
 
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