Honda Prelude Forum banner
1 - 5 of 5 Posts

· Registered
5th gen base
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Long time listener(1 month), first time caller.

Just picked up my first lude. I got a '98 base with 255k on the clock. Previous owner(a friend) said they had trouble smogging in October. Normally I'd pass it up, but the price seemed right and I'm usually competent enough and have enough people to tackle anything.

I have been through the forums endlessly the last couple weeks from troubleshooting to watching tutorials. Here's where I'm at.

When I bought it, it was surging due to internal fitv "nut". Cleaned, bled, fixed. While I was at it, cleaned egr and iac.

First time I went to smog it, I had seafoam in the tank. Was detecting high hc, low Co2(idle) and lean misfire. 2500rpm burns great. Tech said to run the seafoam out, try again with fresh gas.

Decided that before I went back, I'd take care of valve adjustment and check comp. Comp was 150-150-170-190. Pulled cover, checked lash before adjustment. Unsurprisingly, cyls 1 and 2 were close to spec but out. Cyl 3 was a little worse, cyl 4 was the worst, like .010 on exh. Set lash to spec.. 007-008exh .006-007 in. My method was to tighten so the thicker feeler could barely go in with forceful wiggling, thinner feeler went through with slight drag. After adjustment, it comp is 155-165 across the board(checked at wot).

Took it back to smog again. Same thing, except he didn't say anything about misfire. At 2500rpm, hcs drop to 40ish. About 7 sec after brought to idle, hcs start to climb, at about 15 sec they're in the 400 area. He plugged in his obd2 diagnostic and said it's trimming 20% fuel(presumably at idle). Before valve adjustment, 2 plugs were reading lean, now all 4. If it was bad plugs/dizzy I'd assume plug read would be rich to match the excess fuel that o2 sensor and sniffer is reading. If it was vac leak I'd assume o2 sensor would be showing lean to match plugs.

Picked the car up from a friend who said cat is 2 years old. Obviously cat testing with IR gun is on the menu but I'm inclined to believe that's not the problem. I was thinking upstream o2 was lazy, but that doesn't explain high HC with lean plug reads. I don't think downstream o2 does much for af trim, more so checking that cat is good and making small af adjustments?

My theory at this point is that fuel isn't properly atomizing through the injectors. Basically some vapor is burning but since most is larger droplets, the majority gets sent down the pipe. Just seems odd it would be all 4 injectors if it was a situation of dirty injectors unless all 4 seats(don't know correct term) managed to just wear out..

Overall, the car doesn't really run bad. Maybe lacking a little power low to mid rpm but mid all the way through vtech seems good. It happily chirps into second without clutching it up.

Sorry for the TL;DR just figured I'd give as much info as possible. It's possible I forgot something and I'll probably be adding more info to this thread as the days go on until I get her butthole clean.
 

· Registered
5th gen base
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Added info.. Did a little searching on the plugs. It has the e3's. Overall concensus on forums seems to be e3's are trash. Will be picking up some ngk Plat in a few hours and taking a read from fresh plugs
 

· Opinionated Bastard
Joined
·
10,321 Posts
I would start with the NGK Iridium plugs, and if it hasn't been done yet, get the injectors cleaned and flow-checked. If they're OG originals, odds are they're probably just sputtering fuel in.

Another few things to consider- fuel filter may also be ready to replace, and replacing the upstream O2 sensor may help it fuel more accuracy.

There's also a small chance that, if it's never been done, the EGR ports in the intake manifold may be squeezing shut with 255k miles, I'd they've never been done. When I got my car at 150k, the ports were basically fused shut with junk. EGR plays an important role with emissions, but usually, you get an EGR Insufficient Flow CEL when that happens.
 

· Registered
5th gen base
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I would start with the NGK Iridium plugs, and if it hasn't been done yet, get the injectors cleaned and flow-checked. If they're OG originals, odds are they're probably just sputtering fuel in.

Another few things to consider- fuel filter may also be ready to replace, and replacing the upstream O2 sensor may help it fuel more accuracy.

There's also a small chance that, if it's never been done, the EGR ports in the intake manifold may be squeezing shut with 255k miles, I'd they've never been done. When I got my car at 150k, the ports were basically fused shut with junk. EGR plays an important role with emissions, but usually, you get an EGR Insufficient Flow CEL when that happens.


Thanks for the reply. Those are definitely things I had considered. Kind of figured as far as injectors go, if I can isolate to the injectors through diagnostic testing at home, might as well replace since they're not horribly expensive for oe spec. Egr ports are basically free to do, so I just need to get the plugs or some bolts to tap in and a 12-pack though my understanding is that any issues with egr would give me high nox reading, not HC's. Regardless, high miles system needs those ports cleaned. O2 sensor is a maybe but given that the computer is seeing the rich condition and reporting 20% fuel trimming at idle, I'm hesitant to point towards o2 sensor.

Also, updating with more info.

Finally did oil change. Yeah, I know, should have been first thing to do knowing it needed it. Before I changed oil, I did actually notice some smoke on cold start. Not a crazy amount and it burned off pretty quick but stunk like fuel(not surprised). Went to O'Reilly and I drove the car home on fresh ngk plats(I know, probably should have went with iridium). Checked plugs after the 5 mile uphill drive from O'Reilly to the house and noticed some oil on plugs. I'd (like to) think this condition was due to the oil being thin and going passed valve seals or rings .When I changed oil, I noticed fuel smell was somewhat strong and oil was really thin, came out like water(or gas lol). After oil change, no smoke on cold start. Still need to clean the plugs off for another read and confirm that oil burn is gone.

Given the car is running excessively rich out the pipe but only at idle per smog test, I'm still leaning towards injector/s being leaky. My understanding is that a very rich condition could be the culprit for excess fuel in the oil. I guess I still can't rule out rings and valves/valve seals without proper leakdown but the overall lack of smoke with fresh oil is swaying me away from those.
 

· Registered
5th gen base
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So, update update update.

It passed smog yesterday. The problem ended up being old worn out fuel injectors. With new injectors from ebay, it passed incredibly clean especially considering its a 255k mile car.

My symptoms were -18% fuel trim and very high hydrocarbons at idle. At 2500rpm, trims were about -5% and hydrocarbons would fall well into the acceptable limit. I'd rarely if at all see my fuel trims go positive. Hopefully this ends up helping someone in the future.
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
Top