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Discussion Starter #1
ok, so the place i got my motor from chopped the downpipe and i was unaware this would be the case. so obviously i needed a header NOW cause the motor is being swapped at this hour(jdm h22). i called the place and he tells me he has a JDM Limit AX header with long runners that he can send me. he gave me a great deal on it for the trouble of having to wait, and im going to be spening more $ on Type S stuff soon anyways.....but to the point, i cant find anything on this header. im going to try it on (no choice at this point anyways) and dyno it to see what i think then, but does anyone know anything!!???? i would like to know what i have on there......for now at least.
 

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Long tube header's are great. The sound is definitally something else, atleast on a V8 it is. I would ask the guy what it is made out of, to me that is the 2nd most important thing. This is a list from poor to best:
Mild Steel
Ceramic Coated Steel
Jet Hot coated steel
Stainless Steel
Ceramic/Jet Hot coated Stainless Steel

1st and most important thing is......equal length. Make sure they are equal length long tube header's. That ensure's even and thus better flow. :turn:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yea, he sent me the pics. and it looks nice..........needs some re-polishing (they are stainless steel) cause it was heat wrapped at one point and the adheasive stuck a bit. all the tubes are equal length.....its a JDM header, i just cant find the company, and the one site i found was all in japanese.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
ghetto header eh? we shall see when it comes in, JDM never loses, lol. heck, hopefully itll work out and i wont have to trade up so soon. dont worry, when i get it we'll line em up and see about that type r pal.
 

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dude i think i cracked my header at the meet today.....it sonds like its running open-header.....but anyway i'll spank u up and down!!!!! bring it
 

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never heard of it. And if you choose the right header, it will be a night a day difference compared to what you start out with.

my RMF was like night and day to my dc.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
yea i know......ill see how this one performs. i was looking at evetually (after i get enough freakin money) getting either an RMF, SMSP, or HyTech header. but we will see for now i guess.
 

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Ian300D said:
This is a list from poor to best:
Mild Steel
Ceramic Coated Steel
Jet Hot coated steel
Stainless Steel
Ceramic/Jet Hot coated Stainless Steel
I gotta know: What's the difference between ceramic coated steel and Jet Hot coated steel?

As a ceramic coating applicator, I disagree with your 'poor to best' list.

In my experience, I'd rearrange it to look like this:
1. mild steel
2. stainless steel
3. ceramic coated stainless steel
4. ceramic coated mild steel

Note that I didn't differenciate ceramic coatings and Jet Hot. The reason is because it's one in the same, man. Jet Hot is a company that formulates and applies ceramic coatings. My ceramic coating manufacturer is a different company but they both have proprietary formulas which are virtually the same kinds of stuff. Jet Hot has several different ceramic and ceramic-metallic formulas. My manufacturer as well.

I rank stainless lower on the ceramic coated chain because:

#1 Stainless welding is a bit trickier. Get someone who knows welding because stainless is quick to overheat at the welds as the welder is doing his thing, which may cause molecular damage to the metal. This equates to your welds being more prone to cracking/breaking. If you have an inexperienced welder, then you're probably going to run into problems.

#2 Stainless exhaust tubing just gets plain hotter than mild steel. Compare the two on a running engine with an infrared thermometer. Hotter surface temps = hotter underhood/less efficient exhaust gas velocity. It'll radiate more heat.

#3 I honestly believe that stainless is more brittle than mild steel, especially if you murder headers by putting on that header wrap stuff.

A few years ago, I made the common mistake of buying stainless headers because I thought they'd look polished and shiny for years (plus they wouldn't rust). Well, within a month or so they began to look like ass. That permanently stained, shitty look plus that fact that they were emitting some massive heat made me go with coating them (once I started my ceramic coating business last year).

Just my two cents, fellas.
 

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there are trade off with any kind of metal...maybe stainless radiates more heat, but the roughness of stainless is almost nill, so your flow is going to be considerably better than with mild steel. i would be more worried about the inside of the header than the outside. i also think the heat discoloration looks kinda cool.

dude i think i cracked my header at the meet today.....it sonds like its running open-header.....but anyway i'll spank u up and down!!!!! bring it
sounds like you got the ghetto header!:shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
yea, im a stainless fan myself. i like the "heat turned" look they get.......as long as they are kept clean. they may put out more heat, but wouldnt that mean that ceramic headers hold more heat, which is in contact with the motor istself? i have the stainless headers and i just run a CAI and im gonna get the Mugen low temp sensor & thermostat. but ive never seen any real numbers from comparisons.


bluedlude said:
sounds like you got the ghetto header!:shock:
as funny as a cracked header may have been.........i dont think it was, i think his resonator came unbolted or something crazy like that. easier on the wallet at least.
 

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bluedlude said:
there are trade off with any kind of metal...maybe stainless radiates more heat, but the roughness of stainless is almost nill, so your flow is going to be considerably better than with mild steel. i would be more worried about the inside of the header than the outside. i also think the heat discoloration looks kinda cool.



sounds like you got the ghetto header!:shock:
Smoothness in mild steel headers are improved (perhaps even more so than uncoated stainless headers) once they we apply a ceramic interior coat inside. Interior coating is standard service with my company--it does not cost extra.

Scavenging is far better in getting out exhaust gases quicker and more efficiently that the smoothness of the pipe bore (though I agree that smoothness isn't a bad idea). Ceramic coatings improve exhaust gas scavenging better than an uncoated header, hands down, regardless of the type of metal.

Again, with my experience, I'll always go with good quality mild steel with ceramic inside and out as a first choice.

ORLjdmH22 said:
but wouldnt that mean that ceramic headers hold more heat, which is in contact with the motor istself? i have the stainless headers and i just run a CAI and im gonna get the Mugen low temp sensor & thermostat. but ive never seen any real numbers from comparisons.
Ceramic coated headers do hold in more heat--that's the advantage, not a disadvantage.

Holding the heat within the substrate (the header, in this example) increases that phenomonon called "scavenging." If superheated exhaust gases are emitted through a set of headers quickly (ahem..stainless), then you lose a bit of that beautiful scavenging effect. It is sorta having holes in your home's heating and air conditioning duct work. Prolonging the heat within your exhaust system to the best of your ability actually helps draw or pull exhaust gases from your engine in addition to your engine simply pushing it out.

The more efficiently your engines works, the better horsepower gains you experience.

Secondly, ceramic coatings on headers and exhaust manifolds keep underhood temps down. This prolongs the life of your plastic connectors, belts/hoses, and perhaps more importantly, your many sensitive sensors. Also, you will likely get cooler air entering back in to your engine's intake (depending on your intake system).

Again, hold the heat within and it'll exhaust out faster and more efficiently.
 

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Mild steel may technically be better than stainless, but I'm simply not going to invest lots of $$$ in a header that is going to rust away into nothing in a few years.
 

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Holding the heat within the substrate (the header, in this example) increases that phenomonon called "scavenging." If superheated exhaust gases are emitted through a set of headers quickly (ahem..stainless), then you lose a bit of that beautiful scavenging effect. It is sorta having holes in your home's heating and air conditioning duct work. Prolonging the heat within your exhaust system to the best of your ability actually helps draw or pull exhaust gases from your engine in addition to your engine simply pushing it out.
scavenging is caused by the exhaust gases creating a vacuum effect in the primary for the next firing cylinder. this clears out the exhaust gases faster.
 

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Yup, and the hotter the exhaust gasses stay, the stronger the effect.

Heat transfer into and out of the metal are the same, so stainless, which radiates more, is also drawing more heat out of the exhaust gasses, while ceramic coated mild steel doesn't soak up heat from the exhaust, the header stays cooler, and in turn doesn't radiate as much heat into the engine compartment.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
alright, i got it. never did completely understand that concept, now its all clear. how much does it cost if one wanted to get headers ceramic/jet hot coated? im just more worried about my headers cracking - so im def. not going to heat wrap them....as sick as i think that looks.
 

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bluedlude said:
there are trade off with any kind of metal...maybe stainless radiates more heat, but the roughness of stainless is almost nill, so your flow is going to be considerably better than with mild steel. i would be more worried about the inside of the header than the outside. i also think the heat discoloration looks kinda cool.



sounds like you got the ghetto header!:shock:
Uhhhhhh not.......other then the fact that the JDM ITR 4-1 header is one of the best header out there for a Honda.......turns out it wasnt a cracked header just the bolt from the collector to the resonator broke.....but its fixed
 

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Yoshimitshu said:
Uhhhhhh not.......other then the fact that the JDM ITR 4-1 header is one of the best header out there for a Honda.......turns out it wasnt a cracked header just the bolt from the collector to the resonator broke.....but its fixed
where did you hear that lie?
 
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