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Best set of pictures I've ever seen on our transmission. Makes me a little more confident about doing the LSD.

Are you considering installing an LSD while you've got it all apart? I've heard it makes a world of difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
Best set of pictures I've ever seen on our transmission. Makes me a little more confident about doing the LSD.

Are you considering installing an LSD while you've got it all apart? I've heard it makes a world of difference.
I hadn't really thought of installing an LSD. I guess my main goal was to make it, in the words of 88SE Lude, an "Accord cruiser in a different dress." :)

I don't know where I'd find one around here or if I'd have to order one. I'd have to see if I could swap the ring gear so as to keep the 4.062 FD ratio. If I find a car in the area that has one I might try it before it all goes back together. But more than likely it'll have to wait until another time. I'm anxious to finish the write-up and put it all back together.
 

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The LSD install has been covered.
I know because I gavea lot of the more up to date and accurate info on it.
Do a search, then wade through all the bs and hunt out the good stuff.
There is no LSD that is a direct fit. Unless they do one for that Accord transmission, but I doubt that tbh.
All I can say is that I used a Torsen from an ITR as the test diff.
Mods to the casing are needed and the bearings need to be sourced to suit.
You need the later 3G ring gear as the early ones don't fit on to the diff.

Does it makea big differnce?
Well debatable. I'm now back to a 3G without a LSD and yes I do miss it but not by a big amount. On track I would miss it more.
But when I strip and rebuild that gearbox it will be fitted with a plate diff as they are very much different in effectiveness.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
I understand the principle behind an LSD, but how practical is it in a real world driving environment? Would I even notice the difference under normal driving conditions? My initial thought would be no because I'm not pushing the car hard enough to make either of the drive wheels lose their grip. Icy or wet pavement would make having an LSD an obvious benefit, but I'm looking at it strictly from a practical standpoint.

If I ever get the money to do an H22 swap, I'll seriously look into getting an LSD for it. But until then I don't know if it's going to be worth it to try with my current setup.

But I wonder... do you think there's any aftermarket LSDs for the Accord I stole those gears from? This is me asking without having done even a Google search for it, but I will start one as soon as I've posted this. If I find anything I'll post it.
 

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Discussion Starter #65

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I understand the principle behind an LSD, but how practical is it in a real world driving environment? Would I even notice the difference under normal driving conditions? My initial thought would be no because I'm not pushing the car hard enough to make either of the drive wheels lose their grip.
Well it's practical enough to be a standard fit on ITRs, depends how you drive as to whether you'd benefit or not, I couldn't answer that one.
I fidn the Torsen type a very god road car compromise but way to oineffective for track use, although still better than a stock open diff.
But a plate diff is way too much for the vast majority of people as they are less compromising and can be quite noisy.

Icy or wet pavement would make having an LSD an obvious benefit, but I'm looking at it strictly from a practical standpoint.
Actually you have that totally the wrong way around.
They make driving in ice an absolute nightmare.
They work when one wheel loses grip, if both lose grip they are almost impossible to drive as you lose both steering wheels as well as traction.
 

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Found something at Andy's Autosport for the Accord parts I swapped.

http://www.andysautosport.com/honda/1990_1993_accord/transmission/differentials/limited_slip_differentials/wavetrac/

But at that price??? No thank you!

That price isn't bad at all , not tried a Wavetrac though so can't say if it's as good as a plate diff or how much better than a Torsen.

But that looks like a generic Accord diff which means fitment is questionable, they'd need to tell you which exact transmissions it will fit as we all know there are various ones available ian 90-93 Accord.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Actually you have that totally the wrong way around.
They make driving in ice an absolute nightmare.
They work when one wheel loses grip, if both lose grip they are almost impossible to drive as you lose both steering wheels as well as traction.
I never thought about what it would do if you lost traction on BOTH wheels. Huh. I keep learning new stuff all the time on this site.

Well, everyone, it's been a couple days since I switched all the internals, and I promised to make a write-up for the rebuild. I've had a pretty busy week, but the weekend is here! I may not be able to get anything done today, but I will definitely have time tomorrow so there will pictures with the procedure put up by the end of tomorrow.
 

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Hello!

It's me again, first, thanks for the informations!:smilejap:

Just another question: you take the both shafts of the H2A5, and what about the clutch?
If you use the Accord mainshaft ,could you keep the Lude clutch disc?
 

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Discussion Starter #70
Hello!

It's me again, first, thanks for the informations!:smilejap:

Just another question: you take the both shafts of the H2A5, and what about the clutch?
If you use the Accord mainshaft ,could you keep the Lude clutch disc?
The input shafts are the same diameter and have the same spline count at 24 splines each. So as far as I can observe, you shouldn't have any problems using the B21 flywheel and clutch.

It might be a different story with the earlier 88-89 3gs, though. This swap assumes a B21A1/D2A4 setup. If you're running the B20s or D2J5/J3 (?) I think you would have to swap over a flywheel from the D2A4 (possibly H2A5 could work). Also, I think you'd you'd have to switch your axles and hubs to a 90-91 setup because the splines are bigger and won't fit. I don't remember all the details so this information might not be completely correct.

Anyone who does know the differences between the 88-89 and 90-91 setups is welcome to chime in.
 

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Ok, thanks a lot!:smilejap:

I have swaped my old D2L5 (90-91 lude) tranny and put in place a D2J5(88-89).
To do that, i had to change the flywheel and the the "half" shaft , which is fixed on the motor, so i can easily do the opposite :D

It's a good new that the Accord mainshaft is able to receive the Prelude clutch disc!!!
Maybe B20A7 90-91 tranny use the same clutch than your B21 tranny

A friend of mine got all the parts from an 4th gen Accord tranny, and he's ok to send them to me, so i will try doing this "swap" by my own nearly!!! :smilejap:
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Hello!

It's me again, first, thanks for the informations!:smilejap:

Just another question: you take the both shafts of the H2A5
I missed this part on the first read through. If you're using a D2A4 (90-91) then you should be able to keep use all of the equipment (axles, flywheel clutch etc.) If you have to switch back to that setup or upgrade from a D2J5 then you'd have to swap at least the flywheel/clutch. the Accord shafts fit in the D2A4 diff, but i'm not sure about length. I don't think there's any difference. But you may have to switch out your wheel hubs for larger ones if you have to switch the shafts over.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Okay, the transmission is back together, with only a few minor mishaps. But hey, seeing my mistakes means that you can avoid them when you do this yourself! The pictures are uploading as I write this. Then I can start the write up and have them posted. Shouldn't be more than an hour. Shouldn't be... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #74 (Edited)
Here's the second part of the gearswap: the rebulid! Things went well mostly. I was able to resolve all the problems that came up and get the transmission back together. I took lots of pictures and tried to be as detailed with this part as the last one.









My main recommendation here is to make some practice runs before you lay your Hondabond down. Practice putting the housing on and taking it off until you're confident that it's going on straight and not snagging on anything. The bearing popped off the mainshaft while I was practicing this and that's what you see down there in the bottom of the housing. Wasn't doing any harm there so I left it. Everything still went on straight.





Here's a picture from the manual.




Yes, I know it's expensive as hell! But don't cheap out on this part of the procedure. Go to the dealership, fork out your $15.00 and get some of this stuff.












You have about 20 minutes of working time once you start laying down the Hondabond. That's why I recommend practicing putting the housing on a few times until you're pretty quick about it. And this stuff is hard to squeeze out, too. It took me a while to lay a bead around the entire housing. My hands kept cramping up on me. Follow the pictures and the diagram from the manual and you'll be good as far as the Hondabond goes.












I could have left my mistake out of this write-up, but how would that benefit any of you reading this, especially if this were your first time trying something like this? My torque wrenches are of questionable quality, which is probably why this happened.

I was trying to follow the torque specs. 20 ft-lbs. isn't that much torque, so you can infer than Honda intended the Hondabond to be the main sealer, not the tightness of the bolts. I wasn't getting the click, so I kept on going. Then at one point torque stopped rising and the bolt started spinning. What was happening was that the bolt was stretching out. As you can see, this happened with two of them. One stretched, one broke! So remember, if the bolt starts to spin, STOP torquing! It's tight enough!




When I started considering doing this swap, this was the one aspect that kept me from trying it for a long time. This part is too easy! As long as you set the snap ring up before you torqued the bolts down, you can turn the tranny upside down, *click*, and you're done. So simple!














Each fork has an up, down, and middle position. All three need to be in the middle.










Should read "lockplate." I neglected this and that thing almost fell into the transmission! That's why I made this precautionary step.










The one on my transmission was covered in Hondabond, so I reused the Accord one instead. The manual says nothing about using Hondabond here, but use it if you like.












So there it is folks! All that's left is to put it back into the car and road test it! BUT... I have to wait on my clutch kit. That won't be here until this coming Wednesday. But I'm going to make a how-to thread for clutch replacement since I've already got the transmission out of the way, and I'm also going to make a how-to thread on removal and installation of the transmission once that time comes. I'll make amendments to these instructions as I find better ways to word things or more accurate information to post. Enjoy everyone!

And if you think this is worthy, please petition the moderators to get this put into the FAQ! Thanks! :) :smilejap:
 

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The H2A5 comes out of the 90-93 Accord LX/DX. The EX had shorter gearing and it kind of sits in between D2A4 and the H2A5 in terms of gear ratios, but definitely leans more toward the H2A5.
not trying to double post but for the sake of accuracy.

I dont remember the details of the 1-4 gears between the two (90-93 dx/lx compared to 92/93 ex) but i know 100% for a fact that the 93 Ex and 94-97 accords ( ALL 4 cylinders ) were able to achieve a higher speed at lower RPM's ( in 5th gear of course ) compared to all earlier transmissions.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
not trying to double post but for the sake of accuracy.

I dont remember the details of the 1-4 gears between the two (90-93 dx/lx compared to 92/93 ex) but i know 100% for a fact that the 93 Ex and 94-97 accords ( ALL 4 cylinders ) were able to achieve a higher speed at lower RPM's ( in 5th gear of course ) compared to all earlier transmissions.
At some point digging through threads while trying to do research for this swap I came across a huge master list of many Accord and Prelude transmission gear ratios. I just wanted to put some numbers up and see if we're on the same page. Here they are:

This is the majority of 5th gen Accords from that list.





This is the list of 4th gens, which is huge compared to the 5th! The part of this list that's important is the H2A5, of course. I hadn't really examined these closely because my focus was on compatibility for the B20/21 motors.

What's interesting to note is that the only differences between the P2A5 and the H2A5 LX/DX version is 4th gear. The tallest gear I've seen for 5th on these lists is 0.685, which both these transmission share, as well as an FD of 4.062. So for the most part, the gear ratios are the same. But as for compatibility on a B20/21 I have no idea. But if these are a direct bolt-up for an H22 then I know what I might be going for when I eventually get an H22.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Assuming the two transmissions are nearly identical, I wonder if the reason that the one seems to go faster is because it's coupled with a more powerful engine. Even many of the the F22 variants are more powerful than most B20/21 variants, at least the USDM ones are. Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Assuming the two transmissions are nearly identical, I wonder if the reason that the one seems to go faster is because it's coupled with a more powerful engine. Even many of the the F22 variants are more powerful than most B20/21 variants, at least the USDM ones are. Just a thought.
Foot in mouth. F22B2 is NOT more powerful than the majority of the B20/21 USDM motors. My bad!
 

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