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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
You need to lay off the pot, it's not good for your bipolar.

You can always fuck off back to the 2nd gen area and enjoy your midlife crisis there if you're not happy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
Cleaning the connector didn't do anything.

I have a new alternator drive belt and multimeter coming. I know it's either the drive belt or engine wire harness because everything else has been checked or replaced. I don't want to get rid of the car without trying everything because I will always be wondering what if, and regret getting rid of it before trying everything. If I try everything and it doesn't work out then I can always look back and say I gave it everything I could.

So there is one detail I have never raised. I mentioned that I got the battery charging for half an hour when first replacing the alternator with a fully charged battery, and thought it was the fully charged battery giving a false positive. At this time, my alternator belt was squealing like crazy. I thought I had just tightened it too much but I did smell burnt rubber for a second but couldn't smell it again and thought I imagined it. Maybe I didn't imagine it. Perhaps hosing down the engine did push the belt over the edge when it dried and the smell of burnt rubber was an inner layer of those lines being burnt away. The belt has been the same belt when I got the car 100000 kilometers ago. Who knows how long it had been on before that. The belt is cracked like crazy and has piece missing on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
HAH! So I think my theory about the belt is correct. Look at the end of this video where the alternator is spinning when the engine is idling at 800 RPM. You'll notice the white marks on the belt are not in time, meaning the belt is slipping! This was with the bad crankshaft pulley though so perhaps it was slipping because of it, but the bad crankshaft pulley is probably shredded the inner layer in between the lines.


 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
Actually I justed noticed the effect looks the same on the other belt. The lines not in time are because the cameras 30 frames per second which are not in sync with the RPM of the engine. Like when you see helicopter blades spinning on television.
 

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I don't get the new tuner generation. We used to wipe down engine bay only. Power wash maybe after removing engine to prep for painting. SMH
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I had a good day and a shit day. The good news is the new alternator drive belt is on. It's the brand Endurotec. It's a generic piece of shit off e-bay, made in Korea. The grooves are so shallow.

And now for the shit part. As I was tightening the alternator adjust pulley, the spanner made contact with the alternator output and blew the battery fuse. I didn't know it was the output, it looks like a ground cable. The cap that sat over it protecting it was a shit design and ripped off when I replaced the alternator. Also, after I put a power steering bracket bolt back in and tried torquing it to 45 nM using a 12 mm 1/4 socket on a 1/4 to 3/8 adapter on a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter, the 12 mm 1/4 socket sheared off before I even got to 45 nM. LoL. What ever

Well at least now I know the wiring is ok. Logically the problem should now be fixed. All I have to do is test it.
 

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I had a good day and a shit day. The good news is the new alternator drive belt is on. It's the brand Endurotec. It's a generic piece of shit off e-bay, made in Korea. The grooves are so shallow.

And now for the shit part. As I was tightening the alternator adjust pulley, the spanner made contact with the alternator output and blew the battery fuse. I didn't know it was the output, it looks like a ground cable. The cap that sat over it protecting it was a shit design and ripped off when I replaced the alternator. Also, after I put a power steering bracket bolt back in and tried torquing it to 45 nM using a 12 mm 1/4 socket on a 1/4 to 3/8 adapter on a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter, the 12 mm 1/4 socket sheared off before I even got to 45 nM. LoL. What ever

Well at least now I know the wiring is ok. Logically the problem should now be fixed. All I have to do is test it.
So the large cable connected to the alternator is always alternator output/battery positive. Alternators ground out through the body of the part itself as its bolted directly to the block or other metal brackets, and the block itself is grounded to the chassis, which is grounded to the negative on the battery.

The short story is, always disconnect your negative on the battery when working on alternators or starters and you'll never have that issue.

Also, when using a torque wrench, adapters and extensions can cause improper torque readings and/or improper torque applied as you've now seen. Always try to use the shortest socket possible on the proper drive torque wrench for the job. If you need to go to harbor freight to buy a 3/8 drive torque wrench, just do it. You'll be able to use it on plenty of other things. 45Nm is only 33ftlbs which is realistically oil drain plug tight. I would just do that with a ratchet next time.

Hope you got your problem fixed!
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Yeah, like many other procedures, the official procedure to remove the alternator states to disconnect one of the battery terminals in step 1. I have never done this before as I have never had a problem which is why I didn't do it. The problem was the alternator positive cap breaking off, but the purpose of removing the battery terminal probably includes the prevention of unforeseen accidents such as mine. What ever. :)

Straight torque wrench extensions and adapters etc. arn't a problem for accuracy, I hear it's offset things like crows feet that cause a problem.

My torque wrench is designed for a nM range of 28-210 nM. I would like a torque wrench for a lower range but they are all expensive. I got mine on special at Aldi for $30 AUD. Over here, the large 1/2" ones can be picked up much less than the smaller ones which start at $90, probably because the smaller ones require more precision to make. It's a pitty because most of the bolts on the car are to be tightened under 28 nM. I didn't know this when I bought it because I grabbed it just because it was such a good deal. It was only later when I went to tightened my thermostat housing bolts that I realised it was going to be useless when it comes to working on the engine. I was so shattered, I thought I got the best deal ever! lol

Hah! You're spot on with the oil pan drain plug torque value! Someones owned a Prelude for a long time!

Yeah, well I was going to finish up the bolt with a spanner but when I went to tightened it I found that it was already beyond hand tight so I just left it. I don't care enough about this car to make everything perfect. :)

Thanks for your hope. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
My new battery fuse came today so I was able to start the car and see if the new alternator belt resolve the problem. The new alternator belt did not resolve the problem. This is really bad. I have checked the fuses, replaced the alternator, replaced the crankshaft pulley and now replaced the alternator belt, and still I get the battery warning light.

I checked the battery with a multimeter with the car off and with the engine running which confirmed the alternator is not charging the battery. Here is a video of the test.


The cable from the alternator to the battery must be good since I blew the battery fuse by shorting the other end of the alternator cable on the alternator.


I also checked the under-hood fusebox battery cable and under-hood alternator cable. Now that I think about it, doing this test was pointless but here's a video of the test anyway.


It's like the alternator isn't working but what's the chance of this remanufactured alternator not working?! Old alternator, new alternator; nothing has changed.


I also tested the IG and S terminals as per the shop manual under step 2 of 'Alternator and Regulator Test' on page 16-68.


I didn't get any voltage which tells me the alternator is bad, but I don't believe this. I'm also not sure if I performed the test correctly. The manual says to check for voltage between IG and body ground as well as S and body ground. I'm interpreting 'body ground' meaning the chassis being Earth, so I attached the negative probe to the chassis. I didn't know if 'with the ignition switch on' meant with accessories on or the engine running, so I performed the tests in both states.


What do others think about the situation?


h%^#^U54y$W%yh%^&*oi$%[email protected][email protected]!
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
So I tightened the alternator belt to the correct tension but it didn't resolve the problem.

I took off the battery cable from the alternator and tested how much voltage it's putting out, 3.84 volts! I then tried tightening the belt thinking perhaps it was slipping but even after tightening it I still got only 3.84 volts.

I know I said I was going to get rid of the car if I hadn't fixed it in 48 hours but it's a different story if I've been sold a faulty alternator.

There is one thing I realised that I have totally overlooked. My Prelude has an air conditioner so the alternator belt also goes around the compressor pulley as well as the crankshaft pulley. The air conditioner has never worked in the eight years I have had the car. I was thinking maybe the compressor pulley became stiff after hosing down the engine which is dragging down the alternator, but I don't think so because when I tightened the belt, the alternator output voltage stayed at exactly 3.84 volts.

I can't help but wonder why battery charge light was off and the alternator worked for the first half an hour after installing it but it hasn't worked since, and why also was the belt squealing when it was working. I am starting to wonder if there is another underlying problem that is totally being overlooked.

Would it be a good idea to get a smaller drive belt and bypass the compressor to see if it's causing the problem or would I likely be wasting my time and alternator is shot?
 

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If the clutch is not engaged on the compressor, the pulley should spin freely. You can simply take the belt off and rotate it by hand to find out.

As far as alternators are concerned, our shop only buys replacement alternators from napa. We've had the least problems from them. Ive had 6 bad right out of the box for one chevy malibu before from advance auto, and autozone is also trash. I believe napa alternators are rebuilt by raybestos usually? I dont remember. But we've had good luck with them so far.

You can always take the alternator off and have it tested at any parts store. If it tests good, then more than likely you are missing the signal to tell it to charge. They do not charge on their own, they have to be told to charge by the pcm. Any alternator with a built in voltage regulator functions this way
 

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I doubt its the compressor. ^ you should take your alternator and battery to autozone and have it tested. Theres always a possibility of getting a bad alternator. Thats not uncommon
 

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Definitely not uncommon. We did an alternator on an old thunderbird. Only one in the city at the time was at autozone. For the sake of time for the customer, we purchased it. Everything was good when it rolled out. Came back in on a flatbed next morning. Ordered one from napa and had to wait a week. Vehicle has been good since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Faulcun

Thanks for suggesting to see if the compressor pulley spins freely.

I put my hand behind the pulley last night and felt a gaskety feeling strip loose. I tried pulling it out but it's stuck.

My gut tells me the compressor is fine but I will check if it spins freely if I need to remove the alternator to return it.

The alternator was remanufactured by Remy. It came with a test result tag.

That is very interesting to hear that alternators with regulators do not charge on their own and require a signal. I did not know that. I'm pretty sure I had the alternator connector disconnected when I tested the B signal. Today I am going to test the alternator with the connector plugged in. Your clue also suggests testing the connector as well.
I tested the terminals on the alternator yesterday. All three are producing current as per the shop manual. The fourth terminal is undefined and does not produce anything. I think it's a negative terminal.



davidpham1029

Thanks for your advice. :)


-


I was looking up problems outside the box last night. There is a possibility the problem is being causes by bad alternator grounding. Today I am going to check the alternator grounding as well as a positive and negative voltage drop test on the alternator.
I have always doubted that me hosing down the engine with the alternator unprotected ruined it. I am almost certain the problem is something outside the box that the shop manual doesn't cover, something requiring unorthodox testing.
 

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The alternator was remanufactured by Remy. It came with a test result tag.
Those tags are garbage. All of the 6 alternators for that malibu that were bad out of the box all had tags that showed good as well.

not that it matters, but ill explain what happened in that situation. The store had 2 on the shelf. We bought one and installed. Had no charging voltage. Spent a solid day diagnosing making sure it wasnt misdiagnosed. Eventually brought the alternator back to the store and tested. Failed test, swapped for other unit on the shelf. Installed that one, had no charging voltage. Took that back to the store and tested, failed test. Ordered 4 more alternators cause i was pissed now. Found out they required a special connector to test at the store. Store ordered special connector, retested original two alternators, both failed. Tested all 4 newly ordered alternators, all failed at the store. Store contacted manufacturer, had to pull entire line of alternators and ship back.

Next day purchased from napa, have had no issues 3 years later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 · (Edited)
Haha yeah you might be right about the tags. Six alternators?! How does that even happen?! I hope they gave you the ones that you ordered free of charge for the hassle they caused you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Today I used a multimeter to perform tests on the alternator. I hope someone can tell me why the alternator is putting out 3.88 volts only.

All tests were carried out with the engine running at 800 RPM except for the last rectifier test, and the battery cable was disconnected from B terminal.

B terminal with alternator connector connected:

3.88 volts between B terminal and engine
3.89 volts between B terminal and battery negative post
-7.9 volts between B terminal and battery positive post
6.8 millivolts between alternator housing and battery negative post


B terminal with alternator connector disconnected:

0.93 volts between B terminal and engine
0.94 volts between B terminal and battery negative post
-9.74 volts between B terminal and battery positive post
0.64 millivolts between alternator housing and battery negative post


Alternator terminals (grounded to engine/grounded to battery negative post):

IG: Nil/6.2 volts
S: 3 volts/3 volts
L: Nil/6.4 volts
FR: Nil/6 volts


Alternator connector (grounded to engine/grounded to battery negative post):

IG: 11.5/11.52 volts
S: 4.58 volts/4.58 volts
L: 11.49/11.5 volts
FR: 11.81/11.82 volts


Alternator rectifier test with engine running:

Multimeter positive probe to B terminal/Multimeter negative probe to alternator housing: Nil
Multimeter negative probe to B terminal/Multimeter positive probe to alternator housing: -240 millivolts


Alternator rectifier test without engine running:

Multimeter positive probe to B terminal/Multimeter negative probe to alternator housing: Nil
Multimeter negative probe to B terminal/Multimeter positive probe to alternator housing: -933 millivolts
 
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