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DCOE45Z
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
im right fed up with the clanging and banging whenver i downsfhft or driving on bumpy roads!!!. What is a good idea to replace to make the front end really stiff and give it that "new car feeling" haha?

-upper & lower balljoints
-tie rod ends
-bushings??? what are my options?

The struts and springs seem to be ok although they will be replaced soon as i figure out what kind of lowering springs i want to go with and if i can find some decent struts.

My roommates' SI can almost drive around corners its so stiff. I just cringe every time i hit a bad bump in the road from the noise it makes!
 

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Bushings you will have to get from Honda. $20 each and a huge pain in the ass to change!
 

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DCOE45Z
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
damnnnn i just phoned parts source... $90 for uppers and & $75 for lowers!!! Then the damn shop quoted me 3/4 day labour to change them, if i get a balljoint press have you guys done your own? Mine are old and quite f'd, almost rather have a shop changem' out.

what bushings did you change on your Mr.Funky? I remember when i came to see you the year before last you were doing them and i think you were stuck on the control arm bushing or something?
 

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Dont GO ANY FARTHER...IVE ALREADY BEEN DOWN THIS PATH....you guys dont even want to know how much i spent on 4 motor mounts and the top stabalizer bushings..and then ball joints,tie rod ends....to find that all that clanging and banging is a little thing called a Torshion bar bushing...there 12$ each...and they hold the suspention from rolling forword...and when there bad the engine moves the whole assembley forward..making this horibal like metal on frame sound...and when you shift and let out the clutch..does the same..and when you bounce over a bump it does it too..sounds like somthings loose as fuck...and its just those bushings....if you look under the font bumper where the botom suport is...thers two round holes...and theres a big ass nut and a washer you can see in em...theres 2 of em...take out the nut with a air wrech and pull the bushing out...slide the new one on...lock tight the fuck out of the nut...crank it down realy good...and let it sit for a while to let it lock up good...baummmm it should be not making any noise in shifting and bumps...then ball joints where easy take the wheel off...take the cotter pin out, take the nut off with an air rachet...then hit it with a sledge hammer till it pops off the uper bar...and then hit it from the bottom untill it slides out...it was easy for me...but i had no rust..so i dk bout you...and tie rod ends...take the nut off the end ...count the threads from where it goes in and the lock nuts...cound how many it takes to get off..then grab the new end...twist it up the the amount...and tighten her up...that was easy...=)...and if you want better details..pm me and ill pm you back with a better description..caus im realy tired right now...and ill pm you back when im not..=)

Steve~
 

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Suspension

Trav you are so lazy!!
You ought to learn more about your car if your performing all these mods on it your going to be spending a lot of time on her in the future so you might as well do everything now and learn how everything comes apart and goes back together!!

With our front suspension:
The bushes seem to last a very long time, i changed mine because like an idiot i blamed the bushes instead of a 5 year old Monroe shock so went at it like a bull in a china shop destroying everything that was in my path!! Untill i tested the shock and foudn the pistons was stuck!!!! Dohh that will be why it wouldn't stop in a straight line!!
Now after taking it apart found out a couple of things, the Fork bolt gets seized and is virtually impossible to get out unless you live in a water and salt free zone or some other poor smuck had allready taken it out years before and either replaced and greased properly or just got lucky and re-greased it putting it back!!
Also found that the Stablizer ends that sit into the wishbones rust really badly which will need a whole new stabilizer or at least some new bushes and nuts and a end cover.
The rest seemed pretty good but i thought well started the job might as well stick all new bushes in the arms and the tie rods as well as replacing all the ball joints except the lower ones as their a SOB and i'd allready done one a little while ago.

I would do things systematically in this order:

1. Check shocks if they are more than a few years old replace if they feel dodgy.
2. Change the upper ball joints they take 30 minutes both sides tops to do all you need are some new split pins. Take Wheels off. Two 17mm nuts hold them onto the upper wishbone and the balljoint screw end pushes into the top of the upright which has a cover on it held on by two 10mm bolts. You will need a ball joint splinter quite a small one too. But once you get it off piece of cake thats the hardest bit. When putting the 17mm nuts back on just push the ball joints all the way in on the upper wishbone this adjusts your negative camber all the way in is a dead on -2 degree negative camber which works really well and doesn't give you really bad inside tyre wear saves you having to have it all realigned. When done undo the nuts that hold the bottom ball joints onto the lower arm on the upright, re-torque them and then put the split pins back in.
3. If theirs play int he steering try changing the tie rod ends these are just as easy if not easier than the upper ball joints and they don't cost much either all the balljoints and tie rod ends i bought were proper Patent Honda replacements made in same factory and were £25 each per ball joint upper lower and tie rod. The tie rod needs the split pin to be removed, then the nut comes off again use a small ball joint splitter or a big Hammer and give it a almighty whack!! Then all you got to do is mark the thread on the Steering rod and then undo the tightening nut that screws up against the tie rod when loose just unscrew the tie rod and put on new one and re-assemble job done on both sides another 30mins. piece of cake again!!
4. If your steering wheel is pissed or car not going in straight line just adjust the tie rods till straight. Take car out see if it's any better if it's still all over the shop and feels like mush were going to have to get a bit nastier!!
5. Check Stabilizer see if the bushes and the end nuts and bushes are solid and not worn or corroded if not leave alone and go onto next stage, if they are remove the stabilizer and replace everything if badly rotten including the bushes and the nuts and washers that go into the arms. A little trickier as it's under the car and the rusted nuts can be a SOB if they've got loads of corrosion but generally shouldn't be that bad a job. Just might cost a bit if you need a new Stabilizer bar.
6. Tie Rod bushes are a piece of cake, undo the front covers on the undertray, undo the nuts, then undo the 14mm bolts that hold them onto the lower arms, pull out and check condition, now the suspension forks might be in the way if this is the case just wiggle it about till it's free you should be able to move it to and frow quite easily so that it clears the forks. The bushes are located in the front crossmember they are sandwiched inbetween two metal circular plates and a shaft that runs inbetween them through the middle of the rubber bushes and the front crossmember you can remove them by just getting a flat blade screw driver adn prising them out from the sides of the cross member, the front will be more difficult as the undertray is in the way so you will have to take this off, mine went years ago as it got in the way a lot and was less weight to haul about!! When you have popped them out just put the new ones in, put the metal plates back in and slide the tie rods back though the whole lot and put the nut on the end to stop it from falling off do not do up tight yet though!! And also do not have moved the adjusting nut ont eh tie rod if you do your Caster and Toe will have changed and will need re-aligning. With the tie rods back in wriggle them back into their original locations and do back up again. This is the hardest bit as getting them off and on is just about doable but the drivehaft gets in the sodding way and if you get pissed of with it either remove it or you can drop the lower ball joint on the upright to give yourself more clearance to work on getting the bolts in and out. To be honest judging by the state that mine were in after 20 years they didn't seem to bad but they are pretty cheap to buy and are worth doing if your not sure not that hard apart from getting the rods off the arms. Try the car and see if it's any better if you find you have better stability under braking and pulling away then we have a winner. If not were into Real Pain in the arse territory.
7. Replacing the Wishbone arm bushes, now if your really lucky try ordering a whole new pair of arms but last time i tried they were out and not being made anymore but may have some in U.S. depot maybe. If not the hardway it's gonna have to be, as well as expensive. Having done the whole thing myself it wasn't pleasant what i would do is this. Undo the fork pinch bolt that holds on the shock, then undo the lower ball joints, then the tie rods, then pull out the inner bush bolt hopefully this will come out normally okay, then just drop the whole thing with fork attached. Then give it to a machine shop and say you need this fork off in one piece and the bushes removed and new ones pressed in. Go back and collect next day and then re-assemble with new bolts, nuts etc. Don't use any old ones unless perfect maybe the inner bush bolts might be okay. Job done see how it goes and then have the whole lot re-aligned on lasers.
8. Improving the existing setup, i've don't some re-search into this couple of things that can be done to improve, would be to replace the tie rod bushes with poly ones that are same diameter but using ally metal spacers to reduce the thickness of the bushes this will give less, the other option was to replace the tie rods with rose joints and have them welded to the front cross member no give in them at all but better as they will move more freely up and down.
9. Adding little rubber washers to the sides of the bushes on the fork and the inner crossmember bushes, the Honda bushes have a gap and under severe braking and accelerating i would imagine the bushes move backwards and forwards a little, to help reduce this by packing them out with poly washers this will reduce that movement but still provide some impact as they won't be metal, for best performance metal washers would be better but this would make the whole thing very hard if you hit bumps and pot holes etc!! But could be worth investigating if after having all this done if it still feels a little nervous under hard braking (this is the issue i'm having at the moment with the Blue lude especially with the new Red Konis).
10. Replacing the back bushes is easier as the whole arms can still be bought at reasonable cost with the bushes fitted works out cheaper as no labour to remove and fit new ones. Trouble is the rear nuts, bolts and anything fitted to the arms are all rusted solid so again best thing to do is to undo the tie rod onto chassis, then the inner bush bolt, then the pinch bolt on shock or the three nuts that hold the shock on as the poinch botl could be siezed, then undo the rear calipers if possible, then drop the whole lot and give to a machine shop to take apart, either that or buy two new rear hubs and axle stubs and fit the old calipers onto those. Job done.
11. Modifying the rears for better accuracy, the rear tie rods and bushes are amazingly overpriced but easily replaced by new Rose joints and rods, do this instead as it will provide greater stability under braking and accellerating as their are no rubber bushes used, you can retain the conventional Honda way of ajusting the rear toe or you can make it solid fixing and adjust the length of the rod instead to adjust the Toe upto you. The bushes are not worth replcing for aftermarket ones and would be difficult to anyway odd sizes.
12. Worth dropping all four suspension while at machine shop you can inspect clean up and fix any rust or loose paint and re-sprat the inner arches with new stone chip paint or that rubberised stuff to keep away stone chips and rust.

Job done car should handle better but be dead straight under braking and accellerating as well as go round corners solidly.

Also if your not sure about the shocks change them, I found the Monroe ones were half descent but cater for a softer ride so you get a bit of bounce if you use Aftermarket springs on the back. I've given KYB a try they seem stiffer and seem well made get a set of those or the Tokico's which is what Honda originally used. Koni reds are cool as they can be adjusted and seem very good when left on factory default i altered mine and wish i had'nt as the car hasn't handled the same since!! And you might as well replace the springs too that way you know everything is new adn it will all bed intogether.
 

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DCOE45Z
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thanks a bunch there Steve-O! I'll defintly go pick that shit up.

Now...Mr.Judgey!!! Its not a matter of laziness haha, well maybe baaahaaaa. Actually your about 99% right...i just don't have the motivation like i used to! The car has just been a real burden on me lately. It leaks, goes through a ton of gas, body kit keeps falling off and it rattles like a mutherf'er!!! I REALLLY wanted to sell it and get my S4...no market for these kinda cars plus the resale value will plunge once F&F3 comes out...damn FWD Hondas!!!!!

Hmmmm but after your nice writeup i might have to park it for a month and follow your How-To :Rock:...im just reading it all right now and seems really straight-forward! Nice. Im sure i'll have a fewmore ?'s for u
 

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we need to start stickys of all that rjudgey says
 

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your welcome bro...i mean, i spent all that damn money on engine mounts and shit...and i figure ide save you some money...=) and a lil labor..but try and look for other things too...how to test those Torshion bar bushings, umm let the clutch in and out while your driving it...dont rev up the motor or any thing just push it in, and then dump it...and if it makes a clunk thats how you know thats it..and i would also check motor mount too tho...caus one of myn was riped from the torshion bar bushing, and the whole assembly rolling forward...so its kinda somthing you dont wanna drive around with..and its only a 12 dollar part..=)
 

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Things i replaced:
Easy-> Upper ball joint, lower ball joint , tie rod end, sway bar bushings.

Not so easy-> Lower controll arm bushings, there are two in each controll arm, they took me 1.5 hours EACH BUSHING of whacking with a mini sledge hammer and working out on a press. Fucking pain in the ASS!!!
Car rides nice though, you will of corse need an alignment when it is all done.
 

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write ups

Thats fine did a nice one on head work on 3Geez.com the other day might cut and paste it here too when i got a mo.
Yeah the suspension isn't that hard and just give the hard bits to a machine shop to do with the right tools it's not that hard but as funky knows with the wrong tools it's a PIA!!
On a positive not i've found a B20A lude on Ebay in West London one owner from new 57k miles new clutch and cambelt very little rust going to check it out might be on my way to owning 4 cars at once!! 3 of which will be ludes!!
 

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DCOE45Z
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think we all need to pitch in for a nice christmas present for Rich! Im thinking something along the lines of some shiny chrome spinning hubcaps :tongue: haha J/K.

But seriously...we all owe him a big THANKS :turn:

Rich that'll be sweet if you grab another B20! You must be doing pretty well if you can afford gas for all those cars of yours hey. Considering the beamer is what $30K+? What are the specs on it, AWD or rear?

Im going to the Audi dealership tomorow morning and gonna see what they'll approve me for. The S4's are virtually impossible to find so I'll probly end up picking up the A4 instead. AWD, 1.8 turbo, leather in black. I think some of the newer ones even come with a 6 speed tranny!
 

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B20A Lude

Well going to have a look tonight if it's in better condition body wise than my existing B20A lude i'm going to get it. If not i'm walking away, both the ludes are off the road so aren't costing me anythign at the moment, and the Beemer is a Diesel and doesn't use anywhere as much fuel as the Weberd Lude but i also have a company unlimited use fuel card so doesn't cost me anything to fill up!! But it's costing in insurance and tyres unfortunately!! Beemer good but bit overpriced here in England went a bit mad on the options book and list price should have cost £28K but i beat them into the ground and bought it for £25.5K. But got some neat options like Leather, and Proffesional sound system with built in subs and amps etc. which is really good worth the extra £1000 as it's all integrated and factory fitted.
The Beemer is RWD which is a lot of fun and has 50/50 weight distribution only trouble is it weighs like 1400KG!! so it's not light!! But handles lovely and very well balanced for sideways action with the traction control off!! Looking forward to some more drag action in the Beemer as it's real quick 14.9 seconds is my fastest time but i've now got a set of stickier wider rear tyres that are a bit bigger in diameter too so hoping to knock off another couple of tenthsof the time, but it's so much fun with the kids laughing at me for bringing a Diesel and how their going to burn me up and i just sit their quiet and let them get on with it untill the light goes green and there then choking on my diesel fumes as i leave behind!! It's so cool you gotta be there to see there sad little faces!!
 

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Im going to the Audi dealership tomorow
We must have the same taste in cars Travis, i have recently been looking at the S4 as well. I will most likely get the 2000-2002 2.7T, 250HP then chip it and get 350HP, not to mention they look hot as hell!!
 

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DCOE45Z
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
"We must have the same taste in cars Travis"

:turn::turn::turn: Helllll yeah, strong minds think alike hey!

Godddddamnnnnnnit. 9:30 in the morning and just got back from the dealership....wipe sweat off my forhead....

I just got a whole overload of information from the head salesman how those cars are banned from so many races for having an unfair advantage!!! That was what he kept coming back to was chipping them. The V8 is sure one hell of a fucking car but im more of a turbo kinda guy, needless to say the V8 must sound like a monster! Plus they're alot more pricey...i think something like $70K new?

Im reallllllly picky with color, they have a red '01 S4 there but defintly not my taste. He's gonna source one for me and said he'd be able to bring it in for around the $30,000 range depending on the km's and yes thats the year i want the '01 or i think he said they made them for another 1/2 year in '02.

Damn ryan what the hell do you do for work? Owning your own place and shit, must be doing something right eh' haha. I don't want to get too worked up over it yet cuz i still owe 10g's+ for school loans so I mightttt have to settle for an A4 1.9T quattro. Even that is a solid platform to start on, chip that bitch and can see 200+hp w/ 230 torquie. Then after a year or so upgrade to the S4.

Any chance of making it down to E-town in the next month? My chokes should be in and have nobody to tune it :(
Or even better yet, come check out the Oilers beat the shit out of those Ducks in the next round!!!
 

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Yeah, they are in the high 20's low 30's range in price, may be a little too steep for me, depend on how much of a line of credit i can qualify for. If not it may be an A4 or maybe even a WRX, they are in the same price range, i like the IS300 too. As far as As S4's for sale there are 2 blue ones, one silver, one black and one red for sale in calgary right now. I saw one in the bargain finder that had already been chipped, exhaust and intake for $24000 (must have high miles) worth checking out.
I was supposed to go to Edmonton last weekend but that fell through, no plans to go up in the next while.
 

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DCOE45Z
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
damnnnnnnit do i want that black one!!!!!!! black on black is what im looking for indefintely. It's gotta be stock though...yyou know as well as i do that chipped on u mentioned has had the shit driven out of it. the black one looks pretty much stock but i don't wanna have to go to calgary to get the thing warrantied! not practical at all.
 

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how about awd is250 haven't herd much about them ryan but saw one the other day didn't look to bad
 
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