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finaly started h22 swap

28141 Views 175 Replies 28 Participants Last post by  91lude4ws, 
a1cnas
5
completed the infamous h22 swap

:sigh:well guys and galls I finally got almost everything in order 4 my swap. new flywheel new stage one cluth and bolted up my m2l4 tranny. sorry didn't take pics of it but will tomorrow. I am converting this a4 to stick. I will do the man. tension conversion thanx to my broke h23. got most of my wiring done and I custom fitting it. I been thinking about using the entire lower cariage outa the fifth gen on my third that way I don't have much wheel hop. looks like it will fit, but won't know till later. will post pic periodically keeping u all informed. Ok guys and gals here are some pics of my engines progress.
My engine code
This my baby

My tranny code.
According to this i should get great gas mileage and stay in vtec alot longer.
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a1cnas
cinci-91-H said:
Yes Sean, I fully understand your posts now, thank you.



Bert, there will be no difference between the auto or manual p13 ECU with respect to the VSS.
Click to expand...
hey andy, my car was running sluggish, n I thought that it would need a tune up or even new fuel filter. but just in case I decided to unplug the p13 and plug in my old p12, and wala. she ran beautifully. so I scratch my head. wat gives dude. r u sure that ur car didn't run any different from the auto to manual ecu. o yeah n happy easter
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a1cnas said:
hey andy, my car was running sluggish, n I thought that it would need a tune up or even new fuel filter. but just in case I decided to unplug the p13 and plug in my old p12, and wala. she ran beautifully. so I scratch my head. wat gives dude. r u sure that ur car didn't run any different from the auto to manual ecu. o yeah n happy easter
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Click to expand...

I don't know what gives, only that it's nothing to do with that ECU. And yes, I am 100% sure that my car runs no different now than it did with that ECU. The ECU that I sent you is a JDM, and the p12 you're comparing is a USDM, maybe some of the wiring is different.

It has to be your wiring. I never had a rev limiter at 6500rpm, or vtec that hit at any rpm other than what it is supposed to (5100rpm full throttle, and 5500rpm part throttle).

My car runs exactly the same on my current ECU as it did on that ECU.


I do know that I had to switch the outside two wires on my TPS when I went from USDM to JDM TPS. It would fall on it's face as soon as you hit the gas with the wrong TPS wiring, so I doubt if that's your issue.

Get another JDM p13 ECU and see what happens. I bet it runs the same.
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91lude4ws
bert...are you still having the vtec issue with the p12?

on a side note...i'm hoping to be doing the swap in the 4th gen in the next month or two if i can continue getting the hours i am at work. i'll make tacos if you can bring that lude up here and help me out with it...haha. sometime in the next week or two...i'm hoping to pull off the whole front end of the car to make things easier for the swap.
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91lude4ws said:
bert...are you still having the vtec issue with the p12?

on a side note...i'm hoping to be doing the swap in the 4th gen in the next month or two if i can continue getting the hours i am at work. i'll make tacos if you can bring that lude up here and help me out with it...haha. sometime in the next week or two...i'm hoping to pull off the whole front end of the car to make things easier for the swap.
Click to expand...

The P12 is a non vtec ECU, so yes, he would have vtec issues with that ECU no matter what.
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a1cnas
91lude4ws said:
bert...are you still having the vtec issue with the p12?

on a side note...i'm hoping to be doing the swap in the 4th gen in the next month or two if i can continue getting the hours i am at work. i'll make tacos if you can bring that lude up here and help me out with it...haha. sometime in the next week or two...i'm hoping to pull off the whole front end of the car to make things easier for the swap.
Click to expand...
If i can make it out then yes i will help you out lol.

cinci-91-H said:
The P12 is a non vtec ECU, so yes, he would have vtec issues with that ECU no matter what.
Click to expand...
hey andy, i tried that 2 wire swap we talked about last night, and the car seems to be more responsive, and no longer puffs out blue smoke when i let it idle for a bit, now, i have to figure out the vtec. issue. Thanks a bundle.
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ben_deez
I've been out of the house a few days, and I have'nt read up on this thread completely, but I have a few things that might be of help for the vtec and iab issues.

you may know these things already, but just in case you don't......


with the VTEC pressure switch, there is a bypass. (not a ghetto bypass.. it's what Honda used to wire the Type R Accords that didn't come with a pressure switch... like mine) run a jumper wire between A4, and D6.. don't cut any of the wires, just run a jumper.. now the ecu won't look for the pressure switch anymore


I added a VTEC pressure switch for my H22. I of course ran a wire to D6 of the ecu, but then I grounded the other wire from the switch to the ground cluster directly below the switch location on the motor..

as for IAB's, when you start motor, is the diaphram sucked in all the way, (are the secondary's being held closed) if they are, good to go. if not....problem starts there.

on the iab's, I ran the pink to A17, just like it says to do, then I ran the other wire to the black/yellow wires that the evap purg, and all the other doo-dads in the black box hook up to...

I'll read up on the thread and see if I am just blowing smoke up my own ass or if I really helped..lol
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Excellent Bert, I'm happy to hear that you've connected another piece of the puzzle. Let's get that vtec working now, lol. :smile:
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ben_deez
by the way, auto ecu's run completely different than manual ecu's... because the auto trany requires rpm surges and what not, kind of like the A/C does.... I can't remember if you can de-soldier the auto components or not.. I'm sure there is someway..
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89595
awesome build thread.
congratz on the swap man
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ben_deez said:
by the way, auto ecu's run completely different than manual ecu's... because the auto trany requires rpm surges and what not, kind of like the A/C does.... I can't remember if you can de-soldier the auto components or not.. I'm sure there is someway..
Click to expand...

I personally could not feel, see, or hear any difference between the auto ECU that I sent Bert and the manual ECU that I have in the car now. My time slips were the same 14.6 with both ECU's. I'm not saying that there is NO difference in the way they are programmed, but that the difference must be so small that nobody is gonna know the difference, even the clock at the race track. Also, there is no difference in the way my car idles or surges or any of that.
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ben_deez
i'll explain it in detail when i get home.. The fuel maps and idle settings are different. For seller of ecu, is your car auto or manu
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ben_deez said:
i'll explain it in detail when i get home.. The fuel maps and idle settings are different. For seller of ecu, is your car auto or manu
Nokia6275i/2.0 (BL200V0200.nep) UP.Browser/6.2.3.8 MMP/2.0
Click to expand...

My car is manual. Again I'm not saying that there is NO difference, only that it is not detectable. I promise you that if you had your car here, I could have you drive the car with both ECU's, and you wouldn't be able to tell me which was which.


For the record, I didn't sell the ECU to Bert, it has been loaned to him, so that he can get his swap wired in. He is borrowing it until he can afford a chipable ECU. I'm only telling you this so you know that I have nothing vested in this other than helping out a fellow Luder.
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a1cnas
ben_deez said:
I've been out of the house a few days, and I have'nt read up on this thread completely, but I have a few things that might be of help for the vtec and iab issues.

you may know these things already, but just in case you don't......


with the VTEC pressure switch, there is a bypass. (not a ghetto bypass.. it's what Honda used to wire the Type R Accords that didn't come with a pressure switch... like mine) run a jumper wire between A4, and D6.. don't cut any of the wires, just run a jumper.. now the ecu won't look for the pressure switch anymore


I added a VTEC pressure switch for my H22. I of course ran a wire to D6 of the ecu, but then I grounded the other wire from the switch to the ground cluster directly below the switch location on the motor..

as for IAB's, when you start motor, is the diaphram sucked in all the way, (are the secondary's being held closed) if they are, good to go. if not....problem starts there.

on the iab's, I ran the pink to A17, just like it says to do, then I ran the other wire to the black/yellow wires that the evap purg, and all the other doo-dads in the black box hook up to...

I'll read up on the thread and see if I am just blowing smoke up my own ass or if I really helped..lol
Click to expand...
Ok so do i remove my ground from the presure switch when i jumper a4 and d6, because if i do have a oil presure problem, power and ground in direct contact r not a good combination especially close to the ecu, also my iab's r closed at idle, but i am connected into the intake control solenoid instead of the iab wire that is comming outta the ecu on pin a19 with power feeding it on the other wire, a17 doesnt close them at idle, dont matter if i apply power or ground to the other wire of the solenoid. and for clarification, andy,(cinci) didnt sale me that ecu. like he said, its a loaner till motto can contact me back or i can find another p13 that came off a manual. O shit i forgot, i got another presure switch, and when i first installed it , wammo, vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv,ttttttttttttttttttttaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccccccccc, now i am back to where i was before :(,
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ben_deez
do the vtec pressure switch bypass only if the following does not work.... if you do the bypass, do it at the ecu plugs... and just unplug pressure switch

with pressure switch, run your ground like I did, on the ground cluster below switch... run other to d6 at ecu... for iab's run pink to a17, and the other to black/yellow in black box... pink is ground for iab's... try this and let me know asap
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a1cnas
ben_deez said:
do the vtec pressure switch bypass only if the following does not work.... if you do the bypass, do it at the ecu plugs... and just unplug pressure switch

with pressure switch, run your ground like I did, on the ground cluster below switch... run other to d6 at ecu... for iab's run pink to a17, and the other to black/yellow in black box... pink is ground for iab's... try this and let me know asap
Click to expand...
Ok i did as you asked, still no v tec, and then i did the bypass, broke 6.5k but i dont believe that v tec ever engaged, cause the car just launched, but i was waiting for the sound and sudden pull of v tec. I do know that my solenoid is working correctly, i have taken it off and checked it. I didnt get any cell codes with the bypass, i will have to try again in the morning considering its late and dark. Plus with the bypass, will the ecu still feed the additional fuel into the engine.
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E
GAH! this is frustrating i cant even imagine being in your shoes. My swap is getting underway so im paying very close attention to your thread and progress. Good luck man we are all behind you.
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a1cnas said:
Ok so do i remove my ground from the presure switch when i jumper a4 and d6, because if i do have a oil presure problem, power and ground in direct contact r not a good combination especially close to the ecu, also my iab's r closed at idle, but i am connected into the intake control solenoid instead of the iab wire that is comming outta the ecu on pin a19 with power feeding it on the other wire, a17 doesnt close them at idle, dont matter if i apply power or ground to the other wire of the solenoid. and for clarification, andy,(cinci) didnt sale me that ecu. like he said, its a loaner till motto can contact me back or i can find another p13 that came off a manual. O shit i forgot, i got another presure switch, and when i first installed it , wammo, vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv,ttttttttttttttttttttaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccccccccc, now i am back to where i was before :(,
Click to expand...

Bert, I'm a little confused on your last post here. Namely the part about:

"O shit i forgot, i got another presure switch, and when i first installed it , wammo, vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv,ttttttttttttttttttttaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaccccccccccccccccc, now i am back to where i was before"

Can you elaborate? :tongue2:
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ben_deez
ok, now that I have a few days off, we can concentrate on the problem at hand... we'll do this by the numbers starting with making sure that your speed sensor is hooked up to your cluster correctly....

the 88-89 vss issue with the H22 swap is finally going to be fugured out right here on this thread..

the only difference between the 88-89 and the 90-91 preludes as far as vss is that the 88-89's have there sensor in the gauge cluster rather that on the tranny... we just make sure the corresponding wires match... on yours, we just simply trace the wires on your conversion harness, and make sure the connections are correct... if they are... we go to step 2, if not, well you get the drift..

let me know when you are ready and we will eliminate possible causes one by one until we find the problem...

also what are the exact numbers on your ecu... is the ecu jdm or usdm.. also is your motor jdm or usdm... because there is also a difference in the fuel maps from the jdm and usdm p13's... usdm ecu's use more fuel, fun richer than the jdm's

and what exactly happens when you start your car.. I mean, does it start up right away and perr like a kitten, or is it a struggle to start it and is there smoke or rough idle.. things like that
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Ludcifer
I'll start another thread for this later when I've got some hard and fast facts but I'll share what Ive found so far regarding the 5 lug swap.

The bearing inner diameter of the 5th gen is approx .08-.1" larger than the 3rd's. There may be enough meat on the 5th hub to machine it down to fit in the 3g's bearing. I still need to get hold of each hub and take some measurements of it's outter size to determine if it is the same length etc.

I believe the 5th gen front caliper should bolt up to the 3rd's knuckle since both car's have been doing the NSX caliper swap. So you should be able to use the rotor and calipers from a 5th, NSX or legend providing the hub is able to be made to fit.

The rear is a nitemare! The 3g's hub is also its spindle unlike the 5th gen that has two separate pieces. Unless the entire 5th gen knuckle will swap then the only solution i see is to redrill the hub and rotor for 5x114.3 which is simple enough.

I will be curious to see how the alignment comes out with a1cnas' front end knuckle swap. I'm worried that the geometry of the knuckle is going to be very different.
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ben_deez said:
ok, now that I have a few days off, we can concentrate on the problem at hand... we'll do this by the numbers starting with making sure that your speed sensor is hooked up to your cluster correctly....

the 88-89 vss issue with the H22 swap is finally going to be fugured out right here on this thread..

the only difference between the 88-89 and the 90-91 preludes as far as vss is that the 88-89's have there sensor in the gauge cluster rather that on the tranny... we just make sure the corresponding wires match... on yours, we just simply trace the wires on your conversion harness, and make sure the connections are correct... if they are... we go to step 2, if not, well you get the drift..

let me know when you are ready and we will eliminate possible causes one by one until we find the problem...

also what are the exact numbers on your ecu... is the ecu jdm or usdm.. also is your motor jdm or usdm... because there is also a difference in the fuel maps from the jdm and usdm p13's... usdm ecu's use more fuel, fun richer than the jdm's

and what exactly happens when you start your car.. I mean, does it start up right away and perr like a kitten, or is it a struggle to start it and is there smoke or rough idle.. things like that
Click to expand...

Ben, I was on the phone with Bert (OP) when you posted. I read him your post, and he answered:

Engine = USDM 97 H22a4
ECU = JDM 4th gen P13

Numbers on ECU = 37820-P13-N50
553-103027
3N5
J-AT

He said the motor starts right up, purrs like a kitten, and does not smoke.

I'll let Bert fill in any other details. The reason I posted for him is because he was outside working on the Lude, and would have had to unplug his Bluetooth or something like that, in order to log on. Plus, he didn't want to pause his work at the time.


I had Bert switch the two outside wires on the TPS, because they are reversed when comparing JDM to USDM, and he said at first it ran better, but then began to run poorly, so he switched them back to the original USDM position.
Apparently, before I had him switch the wires the motor would produce a little blue smoke after being warmed up, and after the switch, that stopped. But as stated, it ran better with them switched, at first, but then began to run poorly again.
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