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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I'm bored and poking around with an idea here. I've admittedly done little research although I've searched and come up with very little.

I've read that the stock h22 manifolds are difficult to add a direct port system to due to the EGR. I'd like to retain EGR as it has little to no negative affect other than raising intake temperature, which would happen anyway due to heat soak.

I found this from a post on cb7tuner. (http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=11024) I'm not a member there and the guy has 82 posts so I don't know if i'll be able to get in touch with him.

Now... I kinda like what he did here. And I like it. Only problem I could think of would be that it's introducing n2o after the fuel injectors coming out of the stock IM would instead of before. Engine theorists (and 98vtec), please chime in on any negative affects doing this would have.. but I believe it would solve the EGR problem entirely, as I'd be able to keep it (correct?), and it would be a very well hidden way to do it. (especially if the nozzle locations were moved to the bottom side)



I'm assuming it wouldn't be a tough task for any machine shop to come up with... But I'd kind of like someone with a clue what they're doing as far as n2o goes to chime in. Especially someone who works for/has a buddy at a machine shop. I might even email rosko and see if he can make me one, but before I do that... any problems with doing this from a technical standpoint?
 

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i can see what there saying at the negative effects....

i kinda look at it this way...carb'ed v-8 guys run direcport at he base of he intake ports...and there fuel comes in at the very top of the intakemanifold through the carb...they have been running wet kits like this for years....


if you go through with this i def would suggest a wet kit...also for added insurance i would have the car tuned...the begining of your nitrous pull may be lean due too the nirous spraying first...jetting or fuel tunning can fix this...


anthor neg is since you are spraying right at the port the intake path wont be getting cooler...


on my car itb's i sprayed mid lenght on the runners and he injectors were top feed for the most part..so i sprayed nitrous first as well in theory...there may just be a split sec of lean that needs cleaned out..

my geuss is it will work juat as good as any other set-up when done properlly...


have you though abou running the direct port on he lower side of he im too retain the egr? you could place the direct port in normal honda forma after the injector this way...bu you wont get too see the nitrous bling, but you may get too fool a few people thinking your car is n/a sill wih he nozzels on the lower side...


what is your reason for wanting direct port? bling..big shot..high compression motor..or just cause?
 

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I'd like to see a pic of that plate bolted down, right now it looks like those nozz;es would hit the head if that plate were fully flat against the cylinder head.

What about replacing the iab plate with something like this that had the nozzles coming in the backside of it, slightly angled up. As long as you had some clearance between the manifold and firewall that would be just perfect in my opinion. Maybe you could even retain the iab plate and just mount the nozzles in it at an angle?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i can see what there saying at the negative effects....

i kinda look at it this way...carb'ed v-8 guys run direcport at he base of he intake ports...and there fuel comes in at the very top of the intakemanifold through the carb...they have been running wet kits like this for years....


if you go through with this i def would suggest a wet kit...also for added insurance i would have the car tuned...the begining of your nitrous pull may be lean due too the nirous spraying first...jetting or fuel tunning can fix this...


anthor neg is since you are spraying right at the port the intake path wont be getting cooler...


on my car itb's i sprayed mid lenght on the runners and he injectors were top feed for the most part..so i sprayed nitrous first as well in theory...there may just be a split sec of lean that needs cleaned out..

my geuss is it will work juat as good as any other set-up when done properlly...


have you though abou running the direct port on he lower side of he im too retain the egr? you could place the direct port in normal honda forma after the injector this way...bu you wont get too see the nitrous bling, but you may get too fool a few people thinking your car is n/a sill wih he nozzels on the lower side...


what is your reason for wanting direct port? bling..big shot..high compression motor..or just cause?
Well, a few things. Either way I'm looking to hide it and be an N/A car. If I went below the stock intake manifold that'd be perfect. But I looked at this and it seemed like a pretty clean way to do it. The kit he pictured is a wet kit as it has two inputs, one for n2o and one for fuel on each nozzle.

As far as my goals go... The reason I'd want this is pretty lengthy, but I'll condense it for the purpose of this thread.

I just got a fresh h22 from hmotorsonline. I still have my old one that will probably need a new crank. I'm kind of saving that motor for a turbo build.

With the new h22, I'm not really looking to boost it because of reliability issues, although I'd like a bit more power. I'm not interested in building the block, as if I did that I'd basically want to build it for boost... which is what the other motor is for. The only other solution to make more power would be an N/A build. N/A builds are expensive and don't make alot of power compared to boost. I'd like to hit 300HP as a goal.

Now realistically for an N/A build, 300 just plain isn't happening. ~230hp may or may not be realistic from header, exhaust, new intake mani, throttle body, cams, valves, retainers, springs. Basically a built head on a stock block. For the money I'd spend want more than just 230hp.

I'm hoping to retain drivability as it's my daily, so I don't want to raise compression too far so I can't use pump gas anymore, especially with all the damn ethanol they keep putting in gas these days.

Cheapest way to make up at least 70hp? Bottle feed the bitch! With direct port I'd probably run a 100 shot just to "make sure". Direct port would avoid the issues of pooling in the intake manifold, and would ensure even distribution of the magical substance. Seems like the safest way to go.

I'd run colder plugs and install the OBD1 dizzy & ecu I got from my h22a so I could retard timing as well. Whether I go the boosted route down the road or not an engine management system is a must.

I'd like to see a pic of that plate bolted down, right now it looks like those nozz;es would hit the head if that plate were fully flat against the cylinder head.

What about replacing the iab plate with something like this that had the nozzles coming in the backside of it, slightly angled up. As long as you had some clearance between the manifold and firewall that would be just perfect in my opinion. Maybe you could even retain the iab plate and just mount the nozzles in it at an angle?
Again, I'd honestly look to you for your opinion on the best way to do it. The person who posted that picture on cb7tuner had a thread explaining his reasoning for ending up the way he did. I'll try to find it and edit the post.

Either way whatever way you think is best is the setup I'll probably end up getting from you.


hey had a set-up like rosko is talking about for gsr intakemanifolds
Pics?
 

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the only potential problem i see with that setup is fuel puddling on the bottom of the runner. Its hard to tell by the angle but it would need to be a straight shot to the head of the intake valve in order to really be effective in my eyes.

i'm not too keen on nitrous tho. Only tuned a couple setups and had a nitrous kit a long long time ago when i had an auto 5th gen (RIP).

the best way to do this is to have the nozzles on the bottom of the runner, low enough that it cant back feed up the runner and into another runner. This way you can tune the fuel jets (if you wanted to get into individual cylinder tuning via spark plug reading) for each cylinder.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
the only potential problem i see with that setup is fuel puddling on the bottom of the runner. Its hard to tell by the angle but it would need to be a straight shot to the head of the intake valve in order to really be effective in my eyes.

i'm not too keen on nitrous tho. Only tuned a couple setups and had a nitrous kit a long long time ago when i had an auto 5th gen (RIP).

the best way to do this is to have the nozzles on the bottom of the runner, low enough that it cant back feed up the runner and into another runner. This way you can tune the fuel jets (if you wanted to get into individual cylinder tuning via spark plug reading) for each cylinder.
Where would be the ideal location on the underside of the IM to mount the nozzles without interfering with the EGR? I can't seem to find a photo of the underneath of an H22 IM, so maybe Rosko could help out with that?
 

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Dave at DH racing can make you his top mount manifold with a spray bar in it that replaces your iab plate and if you call and talk to him im sure he can fab your iab plate with a spray bar if you want to keep your stock manifold he is a cool guy and knows his shit about nitrous he also makes custom headers with 3in collectors for around 500.00 not the best looking he mig welds them instead of tig but they make some mad hp
 

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Not to get off topic but that guy has F'D a bunch of people.


Back on topic: I think what Rosko said would be ideal. I have also seen a kit by NX that went under the fuel injector and the nitrous and fuel was feed from the fuel rail(had a nitrous inlet on it)
 

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Not to get off topic but that guy has F'D a bunch of people.
x2 Will not consider paying him anything out of principle.
 

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So say for instance that we are to develop a spray plate where the iab plate is, how many nitrous ports should it have.

I want to switch the location of my nozzle onto the manifold somewhere.

Im thinking 2 tapped ports one on each side of the plate.
 
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