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this is going to be my first turbo build. my power goal for now is 300+ whp, maybe 350. i would like to get that at the lowest psi possible. what i have so far is a h22a1 with stock internals, i have a sk2 im and throttle body, aem fuel pressure reg and rail, 750cc rc injectors, aem uego stand alone with wideband, rs-r exhaust, groung control adj coil and tokico illuminas. and now i want to start putting together a turbo kit. so my question is what are the pros and cons of a ball bearing turbocharger? if the pros over weight the cons i would much rather spend the extea money and get the bb turbocharger. also could i reach thous power goals with out building the block? thanx in advance.
 

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From Garrett's website Turbo tech 101(basics) do some reading good stuff on there http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...1.html?#t101_5


Journal Bearings vs. Ball Bearings
The journal bearing has long been the brawn of the turbocharger, however a ball-bearing cartridge is now an affordable technology advancement that provides significant performance improvements to the turbocharger.
Ball bearing innovation began as a result of work with the Garrett Motorsports group for several racing series where it received the term the ‘cartridge ball bearing’. The cartridge is a single sleeve system that contains a set of angular contact ball bearings on either end, whereas the traditional bearing system contains a set of journal bearings and a thrust bearing

Journal Bearings

Ball Bearings

Turbo Response – When driving a vehicle with the cartridge ball bearing turbocharger, you will find exceptionally crisp and strong throttle response. Garrett Ball Bearing turbochargers spool up 15% faster than traditional journal bearings. This produces an improved response that can be converted to quicker 0-60 mph speed. In fact, some professional drivers of Garrett ball-bearing turbocharged engines report that they feel like they are driving a big, normally aspirated engine.
Tests run on CART turbos have shown that ball-bearings have up to half of the power consumption of traditional bearings. The result is faster time to boost which translates into better drivability and acceleration.
On-engine performance is also better in the steady-state for the Garrett Cartridge Ball Bearing

Reduced Oil Flow – The ball bearing design reduces the required amount of oil required to provide adequate lubrication. This lower oil volume reduces the chance for seal leakage. Also, the ball bearing is more tolerant of marginal lube conditions, and diminishes the possibility of turbocharger failure on engine shut down.
Improved Rotordynamics and Durability – The ball bearing cartridge gives better damping and control over shaft motion, allowing enhanced reliability for both everyday and extreme driving conditions. In addition, the opposed angular contact bearing cartridge eliminates the need for the thrust bearing commonly a weak link in the turbo bearing system.
Competitor Ball Bearing Options – Another option one will find is a hybrid ball bearing. This consists of replacing only the compressor side journal bearing with a single angular contact ball bearing. Since the single bearing can only take thrust in one direction, a thrust bearing is still necessary and drag in the turbine side journal bearing is unchanged. With the Garrett ball bearing cartridge the rotor-group is entirely supported by the ball bearings, maximizing efficiency, performance, and durability.
Ball Bearings in Original Equipment – Pumping up the MAZDASPEED Protegé’s heart rate is a Garrett T25 turbocharger system. With Garrett technology on board, the vehicle gains increased acceleration without sacrificing overall efficiency and it has received many rave reviews from the world’s top automotive press for it’s unprecedented performance.
 

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boosting in progress
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Discussion Starter #4
thanks for the info :emthup: my only real concern was that i read somewhere on HT that bb turbos have quicker wear, cus they expand more with heat. but from what i read the run at a lower temp
 

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thanks for the info :emthup: my only real concern was that i read somewhere on HT that bb turbos have quicker wear, cus they expand more with heat. but from what i read the run at a lower temp
thats a bogus statement, dont listen to it.
as long as it gets the proper amount of oil, and is properly water cooled as per the requirements for the warranty, it'll last just as long or longer than any journal bearing turbo
 

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The BB and journal bearing turbos have two distinctive differences between them as well when it comes to spool as already mentioned.

The big difference comes on the street. BB turbo's because they spool up much quicker will offer a much more jolt in power in a shorter amount of RPM. On a FWD car this can cause the tires to break loose much easier then a linear turbo setup with a journal bearing turbo. Example is of mine vs a bb turbo setup. You can really see the difference in power in the lower end, and you can really see the jolt in power in the second dyno sheet. In 500+rpm it jumps 50-75whp and around the same tq.

An example of what I am talking about is my friends gt35r srt4 at 20psi. Say if he is going to punch it from a roll but is in a part of the rpm range where he doesn't want to drop a gear. Well he puts the gas pedal to the floor and the car lags for maybe 2 seconds then WAM, hits full boost very fast, and violently causing the front end to break loose and spin all over the place. Now he could have brake boosted it, but it would still result in the same scenario.

I don't have the time right now, but if you put both dyno graphs I have here over each other the difference is really noticeable in the first 5,000rpm. BB turbos are definatly more efficient, especially up top. If the car is a drag car, well your set. That lower part of the rpm isn't really noticeable since you are spending the whole time down the track above 5,000rpm. The difference comes from the street start, or at roll, or in something like circuit racing or auto x where more the lower end power band is used.

Build your setup for what you want it to do. It would be like slapping on a gt40 because some 9 or 10 second car because someone uses one heh.

For your power goals a great bb turbo for you to use is the gt3076r. It's efficient at that power level (300-350whp), offers decent low end power too, but still has great power in the higher rpm range IE doesn't loose air at 7000+rpm, and uses a t3 back housing. A good journal bearing turbo would your basic t3/t4 in say a 57 trim with a stage 3 wheel. You can choose a different size exhaust housing or cold side housing to help with power gains. Just think down the road. Is 300-350whp all you are ever going to want. You don't want to buy a turbo that is only efficient to 350whp, then want 400+, because if that happens well you will probably need to get a new turbo.

Here are the the two dyno sheets. Mine is the top using a 62mm journal bearing t4 at 11.7psi, and the bottom is a gt35r at 10psi. You can see the steady climb in power of the linear setup. On my good tires on the street, I won't even spin.

 

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boosting in progress
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Discussion Starter #7
the GT30r huh? yea i was thinking about that one. mainly cus theres a member on here selling one, and he's asking under 1k for it. which brings up another question; what could go wrong with buying a used turbo?
 

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boosting in progress
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Discussion Starter #8
ahh, spoke to soon. i just checked my pm and he already sold it. :down:
 
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