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Discussion Starter #1
So I'm building my head ONCE for my boost build. Once meaning not rebuilding everytime I want to jump PSI. Its gotta be good for 20+

So I went and found a very good shop. He came highly recommended from the race engine builders in omaha.

I told him my plans and right off the bat he told me to fuck the Colt Cam Tri Flow for my intake. He thought the idea was completely idiotic with a boosted build. So now I also have to decide on Cams.

The idea:
INT: 264° ADV Duration / 192° @ .050 / .420 Lift
EX: 278° ADV duration / 198° @ .050 / .420 Lift

Im not sure if that combo works together. If not Im looking at the other 2.
Street Grind:
INT: 264° ADV Duration / 192° @ .050 / .420 Lift
EX: 264° ADV Duration / 192° @ .050 / .410 Lift
The power band is approx. 3500 - 6700 r.p.m.

Agressive Track Grind:
INT: 278° ADV duration / 198° @ .050 / .430 Lift
EX: 278° ADV duration / 198° @ .050 / .420 Lift
The power band is approx.4000 - 8000 r.p.m.

For the head he said he'll do a competition valve Job (5 angle) and the porting. For polishing he said it was pretty much worthless. For almost 200 dollars it only yields about 3% on his benchflow tester which he finds worthless for my build.

He however was very very very clear on me choosing my valve and spring combo before I give him the head. Now he highly recommends Ferrea Valves but unfortunately they don't make for the A5.
He was also clear on getting turbo valves. He said it was important on hondas because the flow of the compressed air is determined within the first .030. of the valve lift. Turbo Valves have an entirely different flow profile to them.

So since I couldn't actually specifically find A5 Valves I was wondering what are the specs and are there any other valves that match A5 valve Specs


For springs I've read but am a little lost. You can use h22 springs with b20a5 retainers if your plan is to keep the retainers.

Now what im not sure about is Can you use a full h22 valvetrain? Springs and retainers?


I also asked about the intake manifold for him to do a surface smooth and port matching. He said he'd match the ports but the surfacing is also worthless since hondas have pretty good aluminum casts.

I said i'll bring the intake manifold when I drop off the head and he'll give me his honest opinion.

Your opinions?
 

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i had to laugh multiple times at what this guy is telling you. read on:

-polishing the intake ports is pointless. polishing the exhaust ports is worth every penny and then a million more. its not just about making power, its about making power and KEEPING that power. porting AND polishing yields very minor gains over just porting, not worth it. but polishing prevents carbon buildup in the exhaust ports. porting causes a rough finish. carbon LOVES sticking to anything rough. carbon buildup kills power, causes uneven flow between cyls, and gets worse very quickly, and can completely reverse all porting that has been done by filling in with carbon.
port the intake, port and polish the exhaust

-he obviously doesnt understand the concept of the tri-flows. and is being too stubborn to learn what it actually does and why and how it benefits things.

-you dont want a 5angle valve job. yes it makes about 1% better power than a 3-angle, but it only lasts about 5k miles or less. did he tell you that? probably not. after that, you may as well never have had a valve job done at all, cuz the losses would put the power at a lower level than if you'd never gotten a valve job at all.
get a 3-angle. it lasts waaaaaaaaay longer, and power difference is near zero; 0%-1% less powerful than a 5angle

-highly recommends ferrea valves? why? cuz he makes the most profit selling those? or because they are the strongest? or because they flow the best? how can he recommend something that isnt even made for our engines? every engine is different. he has zero grounds for saying anything about any valves for our engines, because nobody makes them, therefore there is zero to be known about what is better or worse.
stock is more than enough, for strength and flow. people complain about our stock valves having thicker stems causing a slight decrease in flow over typical b-series valves. well if anyone had half a brain, they'd also see that our valves are bigger than all other typical b-series, and therefore makes up for the larger stem diameter. and the larger stem diameter makes our valves stronger than typical b-series.
the only main reason people get aftermarket valves, is for strength, so they dont break a valve head off from stiffer valve springs. but they have thinner stems. we have thicker, and dont need stronger valves. the flow of a stock valve is already top notch as well.

-the flow of the compressed air is determined within the first 0.030" of valve movement? where the F does this guy come up with this crap? compressed or uncompressed, makes no difference. the flow is determined by a crapton of things: when the valves open, when the valves close, peak lift, timing of peak lift, actual valve position throughout the ENTIRE movement of the valve, valve head shape, port shape, port angle, combustion chamber shape, compression ratio, port diameter, valve diameter... etc etc

-turbo valves DO NOT have a different flow profile
valve head shape for different flow is different for different rpm ranges, NOT manifold pressures. less angle is better for lower rpms and/or shorter stroke cranks, more angle is better for higher rpms and/or higher stroke cranks.

-no there are no other valves that match a5 valve specs exactly

-yes you can use h22 springs. no you cannot use an entire h22 valvetrain. different stem diameters, requiring different retainers and different locks. you wouldnt want to use different retainers anyway.
stock is strongest. anything else is only for less weight. and our engines are low rpm engines, so theres no need for less weight by any means
-and if you do use h22 springs, if you get aftermarket h22 springs, only use the inners OR the outers, with the others being stock. using both inner and outer aftermarket springs is too stiff and can crack a cam and/or cam cap

-port matching should be part of the porting and polishing process

-i have a set of web cams grind #13 for sale, only a couple thousand miles on them, $250 shipped. normal price is $327 before shipping. specs are:
INT: 232° Duration / 210° @ .050 / .415 Lift
EX: 232° duration / 210° @ .050 / .415 Lift
Improves mid and upper end performance. fair idle

these would be perfect for your build. you would just want to get a set of adj cam gears to dial out a couple degrees of valve overlap. a COUPLE degrees, not a LOT, only like 2-4 degrees lol
pm me if you're interested
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks moto for clearing that up big time!

He openly admitted to me that he has never really done work on to many preludes before and no 3rd gens ever.

In general he was saying that over time he noticed ferrea has the best quality. Well I guess he'll be surprised when he sees my head.


Now on the intake for the intake manifold I was debating sending it out to a shop in kansas some friends of mine used. They use a "Slurry" Porting. Where I guess they hook it up to a machine and pump a sand like material through it to give it that port and polish.

I talked to this guy and he said that with a slurry port there is no guarantee to get a consistent port on each runner. BUT the advantage is, it can actually reach the hard bends in the manifold where this guy cant guarantee that he can get those corners.



Okay for the 5 angle, a port and polish, and re-assembly of the head, he was gonna say about 500 + 190 bucks "Soda Popping" the head to get it perfectly clean (Personal Preference). That was the loose price he gave

So what is a price I should expect for:
-3 angle Valve Job
-Soda Popping
-Port and Polishing
-Re assembling the Head



and on a last note just to clarify the materials to rebuild a head completely include:
-Valves
-Outsprings B20A5
-InSprings H22
-Retainers
-Lock Pins (for retainers)

And what about valve seats or guides? Im sure i've heard about those before
 

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the slurry thing you speak of is called "extrude honing". just to clear things up a bit lol. and im not very fond of it for honda stuff. hand porting is better for honda stuff

for springs, i would actually suggest using aftermarket h22 outer springs, and stock inner springs

no need for new valve seats, the valve job is giving the seats a fresh surface.
guides you really only need to replace if any are bent, from bending a valve. of if the head has a very high number of miles on it

and now i can see why the guy wasnt too intelligent in what he was saying lol, that price he gave you is wicked cheap.

for a 3 angle valve job, you'll typically pay $5-$6 per valve seat, so $80-$96 for the valve job.
150-800 for porting and polishing and/or port matching. that varies widely depending on who does it, how good they are at it, and exactly what they'll be doing
and anywhere from 50-150 for head assembly, again depending on who is doing it and if they do it properly or not.

its all a process; cutting the valve seats (valve job), installing the valves and measuring installed height and then cutting the valve stem to the proper installed height (this step most people skip, for the customer to later find out it needs to be stripped down and redone because they can't get the right valve lash specs, and only after the head has been installed on the engine), lapping the valves, and all the other fun stuff

its too bad you dont live closer. i could do all of this for you for about average price with top notch quality of course.
if you're willing to pay the shipping to and from, maybe you'd still be interested in having me do it? pm me if so. i wouldnt be as cheap as this guy though. and i'd need the intake mani gaskets you'd be using as well as all the other parts of course
 

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Moto is absolutely right. I also do head work and its not exactly cheap but if you want real quality you pay a bit more.

But they do make an aftermarket set of oversized valves for our car. I had some. Sold them. I cant remember now who made them but you have to special order them. They arent advertised. That cam combo Moto gave you is great. I had them in my old B21. Id also recommend getting that turbo manfiold port matched if your doing all this.
Good luck Wahleed!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Moto is absolutely right. I also do head work and its not exactly cheap but if you want real quality you pay a bit more.

But they do make an aftermarket set of oversized valves for our car. I had some. Sold them. I cant remember now who made them but you have to special order them. They arent advertised. That cam combo Moto gave you is great. I had them in my old B21. Id also recommend getting that turbo manfiold port matched if your doing all this.
Good luck Wahleed!

Second off I wasn't planning on getting the manifold yet. The idea was that the bullet proof engine was done first. then later turbo . But I guess since im spending 2.5k on the block I might as well swing the extra 250 for an lsd manifold.

Well Moto Oversized valves?
 

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oversized valves only have an effect if you have the valve seats cut to match them, and have the inner part of the valve seat and runner ported to match the larger size, which takes a while lol. could make a difference, but often times you need to go oversize on both the intake and exhaust for the gains to be noticeable. and then the question of whether the gains are worth the additional cost for having it done properly. and i honestly dont know if it is or not, as i've never done direct comparisons in our motors with oversized valves done the right way. oversize typically means 1mm, which isnt a whole lot, but is enough to at least make some difference. its about a 3% increase in size on the intake side and about a 4% increase in size on the exhaust side.

and i edited your post, tone it down a hair lol
 

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Second off I wasn't planning on getting the manifold yet. The idea was that the bullet proof engine was done first. then later turbo . But I guess since im spending 2.5k on the block I might as well swing the extra 250 for an lsd manifold.

Well Moto Oversized valves?
why are you talking about buying a manifold?? you dont need to buy a mani to port match.


you get the over-sized valves at raceeng.com

also look up some stuff on meth/water injector, keeps the piston tops and intake runners clean of carbon build up. also lowers temp in cyclinder, which safely allows for higher boost.

20 + psi is a lot of pressure.
 

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why are you talking about buying a manifold?? you dont need to buy a mani to port match.
um, yes you do. port matching is where you match the ports of the head and manifold to each other, obviously requiring having the head and manifold together to be able to match to each other


you get the over-sized valves at raceeng.com
no, the valves raceeng sells are only the intake valves, and are 33mm which is the stock intake valve size. they are just stainless steel
 

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um, yes you do. port matching is where you match the ports of the head and manifold to each other, obviously requiring having the head and manifold together to be able to match to each other
well could u not put the gasket on the head and remove the excess metal around the hole and then do the mani when you get it? i was just saying if he isnt planning on getting a mani yet he might as well match the gasket to the head.



no, the valves raceeng sells are only the intake valves, and are 33mm which is the stock intake valve size. they are just stainless steel
yeah but they have another option for the b20a5. they have the 33mm and then they have 28mm, are these not for exhaust?
 

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well could u not put the gasket on the head and remove the excess metal around the hole and then do the mani when you get it? i was just saying if he isnt planning on getting a mani yet he might as well match the gasket to the head.
thats gasket matching, not port matching. gasket matching is rarely a good idea because the gaskets usually have much much larger holes than the head and mani flanges, which would cause a giant bubble in the runners, which is very bad for flow. port matching is what should be done when the gaskets arent very similar in size and shape, and the gasket of course would be useless for that.

yeah but they have another option for the b20a5. they have the 33mm and then they have 28mm, are these not for exhaust?
those are stock sized valves. intake are 33mm, exhaust are 28mm
 

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well damn......are our exhaust valves interchangeable with any other honda valves?
 

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holy shat shadow your from omaha!!!:wink::wink: my dad's side of the family is from there. Man i miss going up there, weathers hot but at least theres no humidity like TN.

BTW ima huge HUSKER fan.:lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
holy shat shadow your from omaha!!!:wink::wink: my dad's side of the family is from there. Man i miss going up there, weathers hot but at least theres no humidity like TN.

BTW ima huge HUSKER fan.:lol:

NICE MAN!

Hell yeah huskers all the way son. Im a little worried about the clemson game but I have the faith.

You should try and make it back up here some day
 

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i will one day. i want to drive or fly out there and visit and then head to Cali to see the other half of my dads side of the family. who knows maybe ill finally make it out there when my motor gets puts back together. when ever that is:whatsthat:
 
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