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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got back from the dealership and they told me " the caster is way out and can't be adjusted". WTF #8 in the manuel for 4ws alignment says , turn adjuster in to increase caster and out to decrease. Fooking morons in there.

Right side Caster was 2.4 ( cause i changed the tranny last september and had to take the raidius rod off )
Left side Caster was 1.7 spec is 1.8 - 2.8

They didn't even touch my car after they saw this and charged me $114.

What i did was, took the lowered H&R's off and put the stock stuff back on.

The Camber on
Right side was -0.3
Left side was 0.1

^ looking at all this, No wonder it was pulling to the left, right when i got it back from the dealership.

So what i did is, grabed a tape and mesured the left side raiduis rod, from the adjuster to the last thread, adjusted it in a bit, trying to bring it to 1.8-2.0.
Mesured it again, went to the right side, mesured, it was off a bit. Lossen'd the lock nut. Put it to the same as the left side.

Lossened the Camber bolts on the top of the A arm on the left side, and they were all the way out, (pulling the knuckle to you) was like ok.
Lossened the right side and it was sitting in a bit. Pulled it out all the way to me.

Test drove it, and guess what? it drives strait now.
What a ripp off.
Now the Toe is still out, 0.97 both sides -0.8 - 0.08 is spec
I don't even think they touched it. They thought, the caster was to far off, they didn't want to touch it.
Let alone uesing the center locking tool.

I think they did the rear as this is my print out of the rear.
Camber Befor Actual
Left 1.1 0.1
Right 0.1 0.1

Toe
Left 0.50 blank
Right 0.38 blank ( i had a sezed lower shock mount bolt and grabed a new lower arm from the junk yard and had to take off the tie rod to put it all back together )

Total Toe
Befor 0.88 After 0.20 spec is 0.16 - 0.32
^ so I think they adjusted the rear just look at the front, OMG
I got ripped off.
So i called them asking, why my CASTER couldn't be adjusted?
They said " Caster can't be adjusted ". He said let me go get the tech, O he left for the day let me call ya tomarrow. here it is 10am and no call yet.

But I adjusted the caster and camber my self and it drives realy realy strait now. JUST the damn Toe is still out on the front. I think the back it ok though.

I stringed the toe on the front, and it don't seems out to bad.



http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/alignment/alignment.php

Dosen't look like this at all, it's all lined up fine, but at 0.97 front and with 4ws, i dont know.

Anyways, I just wanted to let people know how shade'y of work is done at the dealership, as i dont think he is going to call me.

Not going to get it done right, or my money back, so all i can do is spred the word on how shade'y there work is.
OVER PAID mechanics :evil smile:

Peace, Nugz
 

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now take ur car back and say wtf, yes u can adjust cadster u use this this and that, since u dont seem to know how to work on this type of honda i am taking my car else where, write the dealership a letter talke to the service manger, or just call up and talk to the gm he hates calls, u will get ur money back just keep pushing
 

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Cunninglinguist
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dude, good alignment shops are far and few between. You need to talk someone who is willing to go under the car WITH YOU. Watch their body language and such, if you get the vibe that they dont want you there don't do the alignment there.

what you do is go under the car with them and SHOW THEM the 4 wheel steering setup, they'll probly be all 'hey cool' when they see it...they should be at least. SHOW THEM the little cap that you need to take off in the center of the rack, explain to them that they have to take the cover off and put a 1/4 (i think) inch pin in there...send me a PM when i get home and i can send you a pic of it. the pin goes all the way in when the rack is at zero degrees. put the pin in and they can do the alignment like normal.

what I'd do if I were you...is make the pin at home. be careful when you take the little cover off, you might have to cut a slot in it so you can use a screw driver from that point forward. when the pin goes in you will know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I want to and most likely will, i'm just a passive person. And always think if they don't want/ know how to do it, then they wont.

I still got a life time alignment from firestone :)

Maybe I should take it down there lol

I took it to honda thinking they would know how to do it right uesing the center locking tool. bahahah was I wrong.

Yea i am going to give them 3 options.

1. They tell me "no thats it, we did the work, to bad "
I never go back there again, tell everyone i know never to go there. (seems like this is the case)

2. You do it right, i'll sing a waver saying i will not sue for any injuries i get back there. I watch them/ help them do it right.

3. Give me my money back.

lol sound good? lolol

Peace, Nugz
 

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Cunninglinguist
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that sounds about the way to do it. I'll never ever go a shop thats not willing to bring me in to look at MY car. it's my property and I have a right to it. Offer to sign a release only because youve already wasted your money there. From now on, if theyre not cool then dont take the car there.

a few reasons why i think like this
1. it shows that they are honest about what they are saying about the car if they are willing to SHOW YOU what's up
2. it shows that they trust you, which means that you can trust them
3. if shows that theyre cool people. you want your mechanic to like you so they will take special care of your car.

i guess im just lucky with my mechanic. When i found him it was like 4 years ago, I got screwed by another mechanic, i took my car to him to regharge the a/c for $70, everyone else wanted $350 to convert my system to r134a...so i kept goin back to him, one time I left my Jerry Cantrell CD in the car, he came to pick me up and was BLASTING it, lol. we talked about alice in chains and shit, found that he was totally cool. then i ended up workign for him for a month and learned abotu workin on cars. he hooks me up still.

so yah, a good mechanic is about as hard to find as a good woman. Still on the lookout for the latter
 

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穏やかな旅行&#
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hey Nugz bro, what stealership did you go to? I don't want to make the same mistake of going to them if/when I get another 4WS alignment. If you ever are down here in SL valley, there's a Firestone on State St who did my 4WS marvelously :emthup:

but yeah, just keep pushing. Worst case scenario you contact Honda corporate with your complaint - then you KNOW it will be dealt with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
He called back and told me " the shop forman is the one that did it and he said he adjusted it, (the caster)" the bolt was still durty and wasn't even touched, trust me. I know my car very well.

He told me they adjusted it for min tier wear bahahah
And like always, me being passive, I told him, it pulled to the left when i brang it home, I adjusted the camber and caster and now it drives strait.
He said " wow, well THE SHOP FORMAN said he did it right"
I was like what ever.
This is adjusted right?


This forman needs to be shot.
The camber and caster is not even like this now.
The way it was in this pic, it pulled to the left pretty bad.
Like I have said, I adjusted it my self and it drive almost prefectly strait, only problem, is the toe.

Reason the back was 0.38 befor was i had to replace the lower arm cause I had a sezed lower mount bolt, so i just went and grabed one from the junk yard off a 90 4WS out here. And lossened the tie rod on that side and just poped off the lower ball joint and replaced the whole lower arm to get the stock stuff back on.


Would you guys feel safe with the read out above?
haha I didn't.
O well.

I'll never get it done right.
Thanks preludepower.com for having this place so I can write and let people know how it's done at the dealership, oops ment stealership.

Peace, Nugz

Kalm_Traveler said:
hey Nugz bro, what stealership did you go to? I don't want to make the same mistake of going to them if/when I get another 4WS alignment. If you ever are down here in SL valley, there's a Firestone on State St who did my 4WS marvelously :emthup:

but yeah, just keep pushing. Worst case scenario you contact Honda corporate with your complaint - then you KNOW it will be dealt with.
The Ken Garff Honda in Riverdale.
Yeah I'm going to have to go higher, as it was the SHOP FORMANS work.

Firestone left a bad taste in my mouth also. Took it in @ 9am sat there till 12pm, told them i was going to leave and be back around 3pm, he said it would be done bye then, came back @ 3:30pm and it wasn't even touched, had to sit around till about 4:30pm , got it back and it pulled to the left, grrr.

People don't understand preludes, THE CASTER "is adjustable. lol

Peace, Nugz
 

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穏やかな旅行&#
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haha I hear ya man... seriously though, this Firestone down here on State by Fashion Place mall did mine perfectly in about 20 mins. I sat there and talked to them while they did it - and they were all surprised that everything was adjustable and that I had done all the swap work cuz it looked great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have a 4WS setup for the red car. And thats were the H&R's and blues are going.

A whole other B20A5 block and Pk2 and Pk3 heads for my chose'n here, and a P28 chipped with boomslang obd1 harness, and a nice laptop and getting a wideband o2 , for it.

Red car is now unregistered and my project. Just trying to get this white car back to prefect running order for my girl and soon baby boy due in June. :)

Anyways anyone reading this thanks for reading. Just realy enjoy a place to do this.

Thanks, Nugz
 

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Yeah, mechanics seems to have a problem with alignment on 4ws cars. When I got my done I was there the entire time and watched him do it. He did it off the clock(in the shop with the right equipment) and he had some problems adjusting the lasers, or whatever they are, because of the 4ws.

Still it just cost me $15 and a pack of cigarettes :D and he spent a couple of hours on it.
 

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Cunninglinguist
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theres your problem dude. the stupid idiot did the alignment on a computer. Computers are only as good as the person using them. If this guy needs a computer to do his alignments, then hes a fucking moron.

The place I went to didn't use a computer. he got the pin in there at zero degrees and the alignment was actually easier than it would have been otherwise. car drives PERFECT, my tires are wearing perfectly even.

take it to someone who knows what theyre fucking doing. you dont need a computer to do an alignment. you just need to have a BRAIN


and you absolutely MUST put the pin in the rear rack to lock it at zero degrees. you'll never get it perfect unless you do that. You dont need to buy one, theyre incredibly easy to fabricate.
 

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Memento Mori
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4WS alignments are a bitch, almost no one knows the procedure for the mechanical 4WS systems, they try and do it without locking the rear rack and wind up getting everything out of whack.

I tried to get mine done a few times and it always came back pulling to one side, wheel never centered, etc. Finally me and my dad did it ourselves with a freakin tape measure and it came out perfect first try. It doesnt matter how much laser accuracy an alignment rack has if the operator has no clue.

I would try and find a performance shop that sets up road race style cars etc. and see if they will do it. They will be used to aligning cars to the customers specs. They can set it up right, and will listen to you if you say they need to lock the rear rack to do it properly.
 

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yeah this is something I've never need to do in the 3 years I've owned it. I remembered the pin. I have the helms but never read that part as didn't need to do it. If you know there isn't info on here on making the pin, post up. Otherwise I'll search and find it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks guys.
Again I grabed a tape and a carpenters level. Did the front Caster and Camber. Drives prefectly strait now. Stringed it, the toe seems ok. They are some morons there.

I sen't them a link to this thread, in an e-mail attempt to get my money back. Next I'm going in there to talk to the GM as mentioned.

Funny thing is, you know that specialty bolt for the rear for the 4WS rear beam? I put that with the bigger side pointed up, ( not the same as the other side ) when I drove it, the steering wheel was more than half way to the right to drive strait, came home and turned that bolt so it looked just like the other side and it drove some what strait.

That bolt realy dictates the driveability/ straitness also. wierd.

Peace, Nugz
 

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Memento Mori
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Those special bolts on the rear lower control arm your talking about are for setting the camber, the rear 4WS suspension camber can be adjusted at the upper control arm or lower control arm.

Set both the lowers to the same spec. then adjust the camber on the UCA to get it in spec.
 

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Cunninglinguist
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sounds like you got it, watch your tires, hopefully they'll wear correctly.

mine are so perfect. I'll send you a pic of the pin...tomorrow. im pissed off at my car right now
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
They call me back, after a e-mail and link to this thread, and he tryed to tell me the caster wasn't adjustable, then I told him to look at the manuel, #8 and it tells you how to adjust the caster.

He was like "oh"
We talked for a few mins, and now he said " it might take a week or so, but i'm going to reemburse you for this "
Cause he dosen't want me not to come back for my business.

I'm happy,
Thanks to preludepower.com woots

Peace, Nugz
 

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Actually those eceentric bolts on the inner of the lower arm are for more than camber. In fact they shouldn't really be used for camber at all once set properly for everything else.
They adjust the rear track but also affect directly the rear toe and camber.

you should adjust them correctly before anything else and then leave well alone. Then move onto setting the rest up.
 
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