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Old 10-14-2016, 09:37 PM   #1
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Exclamation Innovative Mounts - Failures and Fixes

I purchased my first set of Innovative Mounts back in 2012. Surprisingly, just after this thread https://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=351670 was made by a fellow member. Wanting something a little stronger, I went with a 75a set. These overall worked out pretty well until I inspected the drivers mount back in fall of 2013 as I prepped for a JRSC install.

My first complaint was due to the motor sinking towards the firewall and coming close to my brake lines. At this time, I had an ESP traction bar installed and that was about all that was keeping the motor from hitting the lines. While I waited for a reply, I borrowed a red mount from a friend (was told it was a 95a but informed Innovative I was unsure of the true urethane stiffness since it was just word of mouth) the mount felt stiffer than my 75a, figured it was indeed a 95 and drove on it for a short bit. This mount stretched worse than my 75a and made contact with the brake lines, so I swapped back and warrantied the mount and dealt with the 75a for a little bit longer (the car did not see more than a couple thousand miles after that).


I eventually purchased an 85a set and had a harder time installing them than the 75a set. Chalked it up to being so much stiffer and thought nothing more of it. Until I noticed metal on metal contact with the drivers mount after the motor settled.

Fast forward through many back and forth emails and the only thing offered was warranty work at cost of shipping - myself and a fellow member purchased a parts car. At one point, it was mentioned that there may be an issue with my chassis and not the mounts, so having a completely different car with these mounts installed should show different results, right? Ended up having the exact same results on a car that was not even driven.

I mocked up the drivers mount with the rest of the mounts being stock and started to look for the real issue. To my surprise, the mount did not fit at all without completely distorting the position of the motor, just as the findings in the original thread back in 2012 stated. My way of figuring this out was by relieving the pressure off of the factory mount just enough to unbolt it and not have the motor shift - then mounting the Innovative mount in place and see exactly how far off it sat. Not only did the motor drop lower on the drivers side, it was also pulled towards the firewall - just as it did with both sets on my car.

The fix? Cut up the mount and reposition it to allow the motor to sit in the correct position. Mocked everything up on the parts car without a head installed to get as good of a visual as possible, and once the mount was tacked together, installed it onto my Prelude and checked the positioning. There was still an issue. Further inspection led me to realize the rear of the motor was still sitting too far down. I removed the rear 85a mount and compared to the 75a rear and saw a very noticeable difference in overall height. This was the extra pull towards the firewall I couldn't figure out. Apparently they revised the rear mount at some point and never gave reason for it. The bolt holes do not align up well and a few that I have spoken to have also played hell in getting the rear to bolt in, which now we know is due to the difference in height.


Installed the 75a rear with the mocked up side mount and everything aligned perfectly without needing to force the motor in any which way via pry bar etc.


Now for those that may have purchased an early set of mounts, before the revised rear, may only have the "mild" wear shown on the 75a mounts posted below. For those that have purchased a set with the revised rear, you will have the more extreme wear as shown with the 85a mounts below.

I have documented to the best of my late night ability, a quick timeline of the events. Followed by some of the photos I have taken throughout the years.

March 12, 2012 $324.48 (75a Mounts) - Passwordjdm
October 10, 2013 - First email sent regarding stretching drivers 75a mount
March 16, 2014 - Followup email sent due to no response
borrowed mount from a friend - stretched even faster
June 2014 - borrowed mount warrantied ($20 return, $30+ shipped out)
drivers bracket also warrantied
May 8, 2015 $244 (85a Mounts) - Swapshopracing ($570 for 2 traction bars)
May-November 2015 car was down for an overhaul only to be reassembled and driven for a week for testing and put back in the garage until April 2016
April 23, 2016 - 85a mounts installed, instant sagging
April 30, 2016 - start of many back and forth emails
Late August - mailed out 75a inserts, received white in return. Late September - mailed out 85a inserts. ($24 x2 shipments


1236.48 In products and warranty work
+ cost of a parts car, towing, travel to and from working on said car to figure out exact issues and downtime on my own Prelude.

I would almost say i've possibly invested more time and money into this company than anyone else that doesn't work there (excluding Daniel's long wait for the J-swap mounts to be made.)
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:37 PM   #2
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It's a longer process getting these here from my phone than expected, so a quick upload for the time being will have to do. Expect more photos to be added later.



Original 75a side mount












Original 75a Transmission mount






85a Transmission mount










85a Side mount












Parts car mock up






















85a housing top 75a housing bottom




85a inserts top warranty 75a inserts bottom (unknown as to why i received white) The size difference due to the wear alone speaks for itself.




Rear mount differences - taller being the old 75a and shorter being the current production with 85a insert. With a factory spec rear mount and Hasport 4th gen rear mount.


























Little bonus: knocking much? some bolt sleeve play







Final results - untouched 85a top, corrected 75a bottom




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Last edited by Wing8806; 09-05-2017 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:55 PM   #3
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I didn't know much about it, I have an innovative in my b20a 3G. It was HELL to get the thing completely seated, had to use a jack, a crane and 4' crowbar to get the thing properly aligned. It looks okay now but I'm still not completely sure. When I got the car it was not bolted to the trans, I had just chocked it up to the last owner being a fucktard (there were a lot of these problems) but now that I see your troubles, I'm wondering if the stripped bolts in the trans were from the mount being goofy or not.

I hope the vendor is listening, because we place more R&D credit on what our fellow 'luders say than anything anywhere else.
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:06 AM   #4
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Great info, thank you for taking the time to post up!
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:11 AM   #5
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Ughhh....that sux. So what other choice do we have? OEM with poly inserts, or is there another manufacturer that makes solid mounts?
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:06 AM   #6
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Excellent work, man. It's an absolute bummer that you had to go through all of this just to get the mounts to work, let alone to get Innovative to listen when you said something is wrong.

I really hope this works out in your favor.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:21 AM   #7
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Thanks all.

Yeah, overall it's been a pretty shitty situation. I've had too much down time and when not down, it's noisy enough to be considered broken.

Haven't been on a computer to check my email, guess I'll find out today if anything will come of this all
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:29 AM   #8
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Good luck! I was considering buying those during my build but now! No I'm good! Thank you for the heads up. But let's wait and see if they stand behind their product and then I will make my final decision
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:18 PM   #9
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Great write up, i'm running the 75a mounts as well and i did notice the driverside mount was a little close to the bracket. I'll take pics today to confirm.

I haven't had any issues with brake lines but now that I read this i'm going to double check everything. Overall I love the mounts.
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:32 PM   #10
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The brake lines issue is only because I run a supercharger.

I went a little further with some things that most will never have to deal with, such as relocating my abs, ac, and ps components.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:37 PM   #11
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Ah got it.

But still going to see mine again tonight I don't have any issues right now other than being rough at idle.

Regardless, great write up for whoever does something similar!
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:05 PM   #12
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It appears I have no issue with mounts and such but, I do not have a road test yet because of other issues.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
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It appears I have no issue with mounts and such but, I do not have a road test yet because of other issues.
I wouldn't worry about it too much as this is more than likely a 5th gen only issue. The rear mount was updated and now shorter than it should be, and the drivers has always been the incorrect angle and height. 4 years later and i'm still ignored.
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:51 AM   #14
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Hmmm,my innovative h series mounts worked great for a jumber of years.i got them in 08 so not sure what "version" i receuves.

Now,my j swap mounts, totally difderent ballgame.
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If I had to guess, it's because the car is a thrown-together piece of shit.
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Old 10-19-2016, 06:06 PM   #15
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i have innovatives j swap mounts. the fitment wasnt very good. besides the poor engine placement, and prybarring needed, they couldnt even drill out the hole pattern for the rear engine block mount right! i literally had to make 2 holes bigger for the the mount to bolt on! how do you mess up a simple pattern that could be traced out better on a piece of cardboard? also, the drivers side chassis mount fitment was bent/formed a bit off. overall im not impressed with the mounts at all. i have the 85a bushings for 1000 miles. so far they are ok, but i do suspect they are sagging under the weight of the j series...
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:22 PM   #16
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Dude wtf is this all about. I didn't know your prob with this was so extensive. Now I'm in a bad mood and wanna break some stuff.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:45 AM   #17
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Old 10-26-2016, 07:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bouckarooo View Post
Hmmm,my innovative h series mounts worked great for a jumber of years.i got them in 08 so not sure what "version" i receuves.

Now,my j swap mounts, totally difderent ballgame.
The rear mount revision appears to have happened sometime after 2012. Causing the drivers mount to go much sooner than before. Overall my first set fit what I would say "alright" but knew something didn't seem right with the positioning of the drivers mount. I ignored it at first but kept an eye on it since it wasn't bad at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuyprelude View Post
i have innovatives j swap mounts. the fitment wasnt very good. besides the poor engine placement, and prybarring needed, they couldnt even drill out the hole pattern for the rear engine block mount right! i literally had to make 2 holes bigger for the the mount to bolt on! how do you mess up a simple pattern that could be traced out better on a piece of cardboard? also, the drivers side chassis mount fitment was bent/formed a bit off. overall im not impressed with the mounts at all. i have the 85a bushings for 1000 miles. so far they are ok, but i do suspect they are sagging under the weight of the j series...

If you have any abnormal wear, feel free to post it up!


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Dude wtf is this all about. I didn't know your prob with this was so extensive. Now I'm in a bad mood and wanna break some stuff.
Eh, I figured it out in my own time/way and will get back to my build thread soon enough. Everything is smooth so far, I will inspect them again come spring since there won't be much driving now till then.


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Old 09-05-2017, 06:39 AM   #19
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Heard that some people on FB are having issues, corrected the links so you can all view the photos and understand what i've been saying for the past few years.

Any questions? Feel free to sign up to the forum and ask away.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:08 PM   #20
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Purchased the 75A mounts back in June of 2013:





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Old 09-10-2017, 08:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Purchased the 75A mounts back in June of 2013:


Have you by chance removed and inspected that insert? It appears to be kicked just as much as my first set back in 2012.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing8806 View Post
Have you by chance removed and inspected that insert? It appears to be kicked just as much as my first set back in 2012.
Last time I had that mount off was about 2 and a half years ago when I swapped the engine. It did look a little worn, but definitely not as bad as yours. They had about 40k miles on them at that time and they have about 45K miles on them now.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodSHed View Post
Last time I had that mount off was about 2 and a half years ago when I swapped the engine. It did look a little worn, but definitely not as bad as yours. They had about 40k miles on them at that time and they have about 45K miles on them now.
My first set (the black 75a) were just a little worn but enough for the bolt sleeve to have play. The extremely worn set was the later 85a, and that was due to the rear mount being nearly an inch shorter than what it should be.



I've still not gotten a fix from Innovative. One set of mounts is still wrong, and the replacement inserts they sent are too small. Currently running the modified set with no issues.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:43 PM   #24
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what kind of mounts would you guys recommend for a stock prelude? stay with oem or switch to innovative mounts?
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:12 PM   #25
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what kind of mounts would you guys recommend for a stock prelude? stay with oem or switch to innovative mounts?

Factory Honda mounts.


After reading this thread, would you really consider Innovative mounts?



Haven't had much time to work on this but Thread update:

I received new 75a inserts under warranty again, this time in the correct color. Also received new 85a inserts - that DO NOT FIT. They simply fall into the mounts. I've tried calling and emailing a few times since, no replies. Pretty sure they are tired of hearing from me.


I've purchased a solid rod of steel and had a machine shop cut and drill to my supplied specifications. These are now a 100% perfect fit for the diameter of the bolt collar as well as overall length to reduce pinching the inserts too much within the mounts.

Still have a set of useless 85a mounts. Will be removing the JRSC in order to install a now 100% completely fixed 75a set that i've been working on. The Hasport rear is nice, but the vibrations are a little more than desired even with a 70a insert. Their urethane is stiffer than Innovatives it seems.
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