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Old 03-30-2006, 09:26 PM   #1
Keahistight
 
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step by step to correctly build and boost

In order to answer all the recent questions and incorrect assumptions about building an H22 a motor ... and so people dont do it incorrectly by misssing a small step, I am putting up a Sticky post I posted on PreludeOnline. I hope this helps all of you.
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So you know some thing about my background ... my Turboness went like this ...
1. Greddy kit with blue box
2. Greddy kit with custom 3 in DP
3. Greddy kit with with custom 3 in DP on AEM EMS tuned by John Reed
4. Built motor on Greddy kit with AEM EMS tuned by J.R.
5. Built motor with custom Garrett setup on AEM EMS tuned by J.R.

I took no shortcuts on building the motor, used the best stuff and had one of the best tuners in the nation tune my motor. It is tuned for DD on 11PSI making 320WHP. I am driving to see John is Oregon this summer to put in my GT35R to try for 500WHP.

The post below was written by me and uses pictures I took of my motor during the build.

__________________________________________________ ________




Before anyone can get into discussing anything about a turbocharger one needs to completely understand how one operates. For a great description of how a turbocharger works please read the following: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm



Engine Build
Because everyone else and the above article did a great job covering a turbo set up and operation, I am going to skip straight to the engine build with particular attention to the H22.

1. Sleeving: (after machine work an average of $1,000)
A sleeve is the bored potion of the block in which the piston travels from BDC to TDC (bottom dead center to Top dead center). The sleeve also contains the explosion of the compressed fuel and air mixture. The sleeves in the H22 are FRM. When rebuilding a motor for boost one must put in forged pistons because of their increased tensile strength. A forged piston cannot travel against the wall of a FRM sleeve because it will flake the metal on the sleeve and cause massive problems. Because of this a cast iron sleeve must be installed in the block in order to handle the forged pistons.

The machine work for the sleeving includes completely disassembling the block and boring out the old sleeve material. The block is then stuck into a hot tank to clear it of any metal flakes and grime. The lip is then cut in the top to prevent the sleeve from sinking. The block is then heated to 323 degrees and the sleeve pressed in to place. This is done at the temperature so when the block is warm it will reduce the possibility of sinking. The block is then decked (made flat on top) and re-hot-tanked. The new sleeve is then bored and honed to the specs of the pistons that will travel within them. The block is then re-hot-tanked once more to make sure all the debris and flakes are gone. A microscopic flake can get cause a bearing to get thrown.

There are several companies that do sleeve work, Golden Eagle, Darton and JG Engine Dynamics are the best. Golden Eagle does a closed deck conversion to our open deck block (4 sleeves linked together at the walls for increased strength and topped by a closed top) while Darton offers both a Full MID conversion and a cast iron sleeve kit. (open deck is 4 separate sleeves with a metal block cylinder wall for support in place of the wall of the other sleeve with an open top) A closed deck is structurally more strong so can hold more boost but the cooling efficiency is decreased due to the closed deck. The open deck can hold less boost but is more efficient at cooling. An open deck is good to about 24 pounds while a closed deck is good to 40+. Keep in mind preludes have made 300 wheels on 12 pounds of boost.
I went with Darton cast iron replacement sleeves as I think golden Eagle is over-priced. Also, Darton has a lip to prevent sinking while Golden Eagle does not.

Golden Eagle: (Roughly $1100 Sleeves)
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/
Darton: ($700)
http://www.darton-international.com/

2. Pistons (an average of $550)
In order to run more boost you will need to buy a set of forged pistons. In addition you will need a ring set, wrist pins and locks (to connect to the rod). The piston is the flat metal, round surface that compresses the fuel/air mixture and suffers the brunt of the explosion to create the power stroke. Some of the best companies that make pitons are CP, JE, Arias and Weisco. Select a bore size and compression ratio based off of a stock rod length and head gasket thickness.

A compression ratio is the amount the fuel/air mixture inside the cylinder is compressed. For example, our stock compression ratio is 10:1, compression is 10X or 10 atmospheres. When you lower compression ratio HP suffers as a result. In order to run more boost on PUMP GAS you need to lower the compression ratio to prevent dangerous engine conditions such as detonation, knock and running lean. For a rule of thumb: lower compression = more boost but less torque & longer lag time. Keep in mind the higher compression is the more difficult higher boost is to tune and the less forgiving the tune will be.

3. Rods (an average of $350.00)
Connecting Rods serve as the connection between the piston and the crank shaft. The rod must have enough tensile strength to bring the piston and entire force of the explosion to a complete stop 4 times for every rotation!! There are several companies to go with for rods and by far the most common is Golden Eagle H beam rods. They rock.

4. Extras ($600-800)
EVERYONE OVERLOOKS THIS WHEN ESTIMATING COST!!
So now you have the sleeving done, a block sitting in front of you and your pistons, rings and rods, so now what? Well, there is no point to build the engine and skip on the rest. The ENTIRE engine should be new! Main and Rod bearings need to be purchased. OEM Honda are the best. The set sells for 200. They come in ½’s and are color coded so check your block for which ones you need. You will also want to buy ALL NEW SEALS, GASKETS & BELTS. Use all OEM as Honda is the best. Head gasket kit (200), rear and main seal (80), timing belt, timing belt tensioner, auto tensioner (140), crank pulley belt, AC and PS belt (80)… Get the works. I cant stress enough … there is no point to build a motor only to have a weak point because you skipped on a 3 dollar seal!! You may also want to get a water pump and oil pump (300 for both) for peace of mind so you know everything is new and you don’t have any hidden costs later. The engine is out so DO IT ALL CORRECTLY!
P.S. Also do a new clutch

Use this site to get OEM stuff cheap:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...catdisplay.jsp

5. Head work (??)
Now your block is all together so what about your head? Machine work you will want to do at a minimum is a hot tank, valve job and resurface. Whether want to change the valves, springs, retainers, cams or get a port and polish is all up to you. I would change springs and retainers, leave the stock valves and cams and get a port and polish. This cost me around 800.

6. The process of the R&R, Build and drop ($1500.00)
So now you have all your parts and you want to go about the build. First, take your time to piece all your parts together and make SURE you have EVERYTHING before you start the build process. Interview several builders and choose one you trust as your engine is in their hands. I would also ask about a guarantee as very few will guarantee their engines in case some thing goes wrong. Go with one that does. An engine R&R (remove and replace) should run around $600-1,000. A build should run anywhere from $400-600. Have a rental on the side as your car will be out of commission a minimum of 2 weeks. Count on 1 day for a pull, 1 day for a tear down , 1 ½ weeks for machine work, 1 day for a build, 1 day for reinstallation and 1 day for the start process.

7. Stand Alone Engine Management System ($500-1,400)
Because you have completely altered your engine the stock ECU (or piggy-back) can no longer handle controlling your engine. You will need to buy a new engine management control system. The two most popular are Hondata and AEM PEMS. Hondata is less expensive, more user friendly but offers less control than the AEM system. You will also need to buy extras for data logging, a wiring harness etc. AEM PEMS is amazing … trust me. It can control everything … and I mean everything. It is very pricey and difficult to use but is by far the most complete system out. You do not need to buy any extras as it includes everything from a boost controller to being able to do gear dependant boost sampled at every 50 RPM. What ever system you go with make sure you spend the money to have it TUNED, TESTED and TUNED AGAIN! In addition to the hardware be prepared to spend anywhere from $300-1000 for a good tune. Save all your maps before you make changes so if you have something go wrong all the time is not wasted. remember, A "BULLETPROOF" ENGINE CAN EASILY BE BLOWN ON LOW BOOST WITHOUT TUNING!! TUNING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART!!

8. Turbo extras

Turbo timer: Because a Turbo operates off of exhaust it reaches a very high operating temperature. This means it needs to cool down. Oil is the life blood of a turbo so cutting off its supply before it has had a sufficient time to cool can cause irreparable damage to it. A turbo timer allows the car to idle and maintain oil pressure after the key has been removed for a designated period of time in order to allow the oil to sufficiently cool the turbo and prevent damage. This is essential.

Boost Controller: A waste-gate protects against over-boost. Because it operates of off a spring that opens to let off excess pressure to keep the turbo at a preset level, in order to increase boost you need to bypass this system. A boost controller is needed to effectively bypass this and increase boost. The best stand alone boost controller is the APEXi which sells for around 400. If you go with the AEM EMS this is offered as an integral part. You will only need to purchase a boost controller solenoid and wiring harness to make it work … well ... and understand the most complicated tuning tool ever created.

Blow Off Valve: A Blow off valve (BOV) operates off of vacuum and releases the compressed air from the turbo when the butterfly valve closes. This relieves stress on you engine and IM. It also helps the turbo to maintain its spool so after the shift it can spool more quickly/efficiently. HKS and Greddy are the common ones. I can vouch for the HKS SSQV, it rocks.

Gauges: A boost gauge is a must. Other options for second gauge are Exhaust Temperature (which is good for those in the hotter areas of the country), an oil pressure gauge (my personal recommendation and a great way to watch when the engine is warmed up and to monitor oil pressure/life-blood to the turbo for spikes under high boost) and various fuel gauges.

I hope that answers any questions about an engine build. If you have any questions feel free to post em’ up and I will try to answer them the best I can.

__________________________________________________ ______________
The following was added:
MY MOTOR BEING BUILT



















FINAL SETUP


MY DYNO

Last edited by Keahistight; 03-30-2006 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:44 PM   #2
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blacktrax.. in miltpitas ... heey...
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:53 PM   #3
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bump to sticy this
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudeludenotmeanthough
blacktrax.. in miltpitas ... heey...
Yep. Jei built my motor and John Reed tuned it on their dyno. If you look at their site they list "AEM PEMS tuning by John Reed". It was my car that introduced them

Edit: can a mod rename the title: How to build an H22
Thanks

Last edited by Keahistight; 03-30-2006 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 03-31-2006, 06:00 AM   #5
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I would recommend avoiding JG Engine Dynamics like the plague. As for doing any work to the head I would leave it be with springs, valves, etc intact. These things flow very well and only a couple places are able to extract anymore power out of them (like PortFlow), check the Portflow site for more info. The stock CAMs are also decent unless you decide to go with a Web custom. The head and stock cams are good for more than 500whp. CP or Endyn pistons would be your best bet but make sure the ring tolerances are correct so you don't burn extra oil. I would also recommend going with an 89mm (as compared to the 87mm) for some more torque and highly advise staying with the stock compression unless you're gonna be running 25 or more psi. Most people have no idea what it's like driving a street Honda with over 300whp so be sure this is where you want to go. Driving in the rain is interesting, to say the least, when you have this much power. The EMS thing needs to be discussed with the tuner because there are so many systems out there like AEM, Hondata, Chrome, MoTeC, Haltech and many more. Find out what he is good with and go from there. Try to stay within the realm of Honda so when troubleshooting it'll be easier on you and anyone who works on the car (hence the reason I went from AEM to Hondata). Another thing to think about is maintenance, what will break when you have this much power because things will break.
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Old 03-31-2006, 07:45 AM   #6
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DAMNN, seems to me you guys have a lot of money sitting around so ahh yeah. Does anyone want to sponsor me? I am 18 years old, I go to college full time and I work at radio shack. I am not quite taking a bath in hundred dollar bills. I think I should store my lude for 20 years wait till I have a career, a family and maybe just maybe I can be that old guy who works on older vehicles (like Honda’s instead of Chevy’s).. but an AWSOME write-up might i add, i learned some new things.
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Old 03-31-2006, 08:19 AM   #7
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Its been stuck, nice post.
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Old 03-31-2006, 04:16 PM   #8
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i do agree this needs to be stickied im going to email mahle i want to see if i convince them to give me a warranty bc i would be willing to try them with no sleeves if i dont have to pay for the new engine .... Talking to you has actually made me rethink my rebuild and im still debating on the AEMS you know of any SE places that tune?
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Old 03-31-2006, 05:42 PM   #9
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There is NO WAY mahle will ever warranty your block. This would mean that if some one didnt tune it correctly THEY would be liable for your blown motor. This is another reason why they cant guarentee their pistons will work with FRM.
Point is ... why risk it? Just do it correctly to begin with.

I posted the only AEM dual master certified tuners in the country in the other post.
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Old 05-22-2006, 05:04 PM   #10
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great info i'm about to do the same thing..
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JDM H22A Turbo Build in progress..
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:22 AM   #11
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On a side note, anyone running AEM EMS should DISABLE O2 feedback when tuning and ENABLE it when you are done and driving.

It is an advanced feature only on AEM that allows the unit to re-tune your car for hotter/colder weather and changes in altitde without changing the tuned Main map by changing A/F, timing, ignition etc. within a given %.
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Old 09-17-2006, 01:03 PM   #12
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If im on a tight budget..is tehre anything i can subsitute/do do decrease the amount of money...i am on a 17 y/o budget here..hehe.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:02 PM   #13
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Dont build your motor and go with a kit only. Be happy you are one of the 0.01% of people under 20 with a turbo on a non-turbo car. Run it until you have money to correctly build your block.

Although by that time ... you will want to move on to a better platform.
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Old 09-21-2006, 05:16 PM   #14
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very nice information i wish i knew enough about mechanics to do it.. i have the money but i do not want to rely on a shop.. i only want to do fi if i can understand it all and fix it myself.
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:16 PM   #15
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im going to rebuild my engine after i graduate, but wont get the turbo for a little while afterwords. want the peace of mind that my engine is good, and i have a shop where i can do most of it my self so i will save a lot on labor, may have to have some 1 else sleeve the block, but ill talk with the auto Techs. there and see what all we can and cant do.
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keahistight View Post
On a side note, anyone running AEM EMS should DISABLE O2 feedback when tuning and ENABLE it when you are done and driving.

It is an advanced feature only on AEM that allows the unit to re-tune your car for hotter/colder weather and changes in altitde without changing the tuned Main map by changing A/F, timing, ignition etc. within a given %.
all standalone ecu's have the option of disabling the o2 feedback, including chipped ecu's running chrome.
and yes, any time you tune, you ALWAYS disable o2 feedback.

all standalone ecu's also have compensation level adjustments for coolant temp, air temp, sometimes air pressure, idle speed under different conditions, and much much more.

honestly, hondata and crome chipped ecu's have almost all the features aem ems has, and for a much lower cost. the only things they dont have that aem ems does, is the complicated stuff that is pretty much unnecessary unless the car is a full out drag car only.
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:49 PM   #17
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all that "complicated stuff" is what makes a car fun to drive. with AEM EMS you can limit boost based off of RPM and gearing. A traction control of sorts so you can get going. Limiting boost to 7PSI in first gear and increasing it as you increase RPM and gearing allows you to get off the line much quicker with no feathering, tire spinning or other traction issues.
Data logging isnt the same with time or variables.
Variable tuning potential isnt the same.
Internal boost control, internal NOS control, sequential control, sequential turbo ... the list goes on and on.

The systems are vastly different. But the differences are only appearant in the hands of a good tuner.
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:24 AM   #18
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so i just rebuilt my head 1mm over ferra valves and full headset pretty much. and im going to go ahead and start on the block in two weeks. please tell me the most reliable place to get my sleeves done. im so lost on all this but i have all the time money and patience in the world to make my h22 work.
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:19 PM   #19
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^^ That is going to depend on your location. The major thing to remember when selecting a machine shop is to question them and make sure they know to heat the block to 270 degrees (forgot exact temp) before pressing the sleeves and that they have an astute machinist that can do the top lip when running lipped sleeves.
Ask your builder. They probably know a good one.
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Old 10-13-2007, 12:29 AM   #20
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this is very informative
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:00 AM   #21
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That is some good info. Would there be any different steps you would take to put a supercharger instead of a turbo on the h22? I have an 01 SH and an extra motor and supercharger to put on. I am getting ready to start the whole project. Let me know what you think.
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Old 04-16-2008, 12:53 PM   #22
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thanks this wuz very helpful
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:24 PM   #23
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Im about to buy all of these parts all ot once. Trying to get Enjuku Racing to help me out and get the parts a little cheaper. But ya, this is the exact build I am doing. CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, Darton Sleeves, Rev Hard with GT35R upgrade, Hondata s300, AEM fuel reg & rails, Exedy stage 2 thick clutch kit, and possibly some Greddy injectors.
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:33 AM   #24
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Whats the part number for the good darton sleeves, for open deck.
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryans99Prelude View Post
Whats the part number for the good darton sleeves, for open deck.
is there a chart or something that can give me an idea of how much boost is safe with what compression ratio?
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