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Old 05-24-2012, 10:28 AM   #1
LowLude97
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Really Hard Shifting Problem.

Ok So I have a friend who has a 97 base and it has a shifting issue for sure. What happens is when the car is running whether your sitting still or moving it doesn't matter, it is harder than crap to get it to go in gear. It doesn't grind but its just really hard to put in gear. It will give you a workout driving it. Even when the car comes to a stop its even harder to put in first gear. Heres the catch though...when the car is shut off and not running it goes into gear like butter so I have no idea what it is! The car only has 117k on it and its drove normal not raped on. Here is what has been tried to resolve the issue...

1. Changed tranny fluid with Honda manual fluid. (original fluid wasn't really even dirty)
2. Have bled the slave cylinder three different times.
3. I took the cap off the top of the transmission where the gear lever goes in and the fill tube is for the fluid and checked to make sure there was no metal shavings or grinding of that nature. It was clean with clean oil.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:31 AM   #2
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Are all the gears difficult to go into, or just first gear?
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:32 AM   #3
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First off, is the clutch hydraulic system working properly? I take it since you bled the system you can verify that the slave is fully extending. While you're at it, check the clutch master cylinder out and make sure it hasn't failed.

Second, Adjust your clutch pedal push rod and free play at the master cylinder. Especially if the clutch feels like it's "always engaged" and never fully comes out. Or is always "disengaged" and doesn't ever grab right.
To adjust the free play, you basically need to back out the neutral saftey switch on the top of the pedal. Back that out so it's not pushing the pedal arm at all to start. Then, set the clutch engagement point by loosening the 12mm bolt on the master cylinder push rod, then turning the rod either clockwise or counterclockwise until the engagement point is where it needs to be. Then, set free play so you are certain the clutch is fully engaged when your foot is off the pedal.

It's trial and error as far as the adjustment goes.

Worst case scenerio, if all else fails, that's usually a sign that the clutch is going out.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psud3ity View Post
First off, is the clutch hydraulic system working properly? I take it since you bled the system you can verify that the slave is fully extending. While you're at it, check the clutch master cylinder out and make sure it hasn't failed.

Second, Adjust your clutch pedal push rod and free play at the master cylinder. Especially if the clutch feels like it's "always engaged" and never fully comes out. Or is always "disengaged" and doesn't ever grab right.
To adjust the free play, you basically need to back out the neutral saftey switch on the top of the pedal. Back that out so it's not pushing the pedal arm at all to start. Then, set the clutch engagement point by loosening the 12mm bolt on the master cylinder push rod, then turning the rod either clockwise or counterclockwise until the engagement point is where it needs to be. Then, set free play so you are certain the clutch is fully engaged when your foot is off the pedal.

It's trial and error as far as the adjustment goes.

Worst case scenerio, if all else fails, that's usually a sign that the clutch is going out.
It all the gears but first gear is just a little bit harder. I will check the slave cylinder once again to double check but it definitely looks like it is fully extending. I will also adjust the clutch and see if that fixes the issue. Could it be the throw out bearing? It makes a little bit of noise if the clutch is disengaged and the car is in neutral.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:28 AM   #5
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That noise could be one of two things.

1. Clutch still slightly engaged from poor adjustment. Had a similar problem a few weeks ago. Thread called strange transmission clutch thing

2. Broken spring or other debris between clutch disc and pressure plate. I had a pilot bearing on an eBay lightweight flywheel go bad and the ball bearings came out. Made a nice rattling sound for a few weeks before the clutch let go. The ball bearings basically destroyed the clutch disc breaking 3 springs off. Looked like someone fired birdshot at the clutch disc itself. Caused a hell of a shifting problem.

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Old 05-24-2012, 01:05 PM   #6
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I'm going with bad/broken clutch.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:18 AM   #7
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Alright thanks guys. I will check it out tomorrow and see what I got and go from there. Hopefully it's some thing simple!
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:58 PM   #8
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Yessir broken clutch indeed. Ive had this before. You can drive the car without a clutch though . Just kidding, I do not actually recommend this but you can.

If you find yourself stuck in gear and stall out at a light dont panic lol. When the car is off put the shifter into first and use the clutch to start the car. Once you start the car begin driving so you dont stall. You can get away with shifting without a clutch if you've had practice at it. Otherwise its the fastest way to trash your trans

When I had this issue, I had a spring fly out of the clutch disk
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:36 PM   #9
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Rev match like a bawss... I've done that trick on countless cars.
Tends to kill starter motors.

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Old 05-27-2012, 05:19 PM   #10
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I have adjusted the clutch and checked the slave cylinder and it looks to be fully extending and its fully working. I guess it could be the clutch but I'm not really sure. Im going to drive it a little bit to see if anything changes after making the adjustments. Is there a possibility it could be the transmission?
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:25 PM   #11
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Yeah, its possible its the transmission, but transmissions don't break all at once usually. It's more likley the clutch.

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Old 05-28-2012, 08:37 PM   #12
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Ok I think I may have found the issue. My friend said he did some reasearcj and they said that if the clutch fluid is dirty that is could be the slave cylinder leaking inside the transmission. Does that sound correct?
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:04 AM   #13
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Since we don't exactly what the shifter feels like, I can say to not rule out that your cables can be stretched. Not saying its that, but the problem is kinda vague.
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:48 PM   #14
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If your clutch fluid is black then its a possibility that the black color is from failing/ed rubber seals for master/slave. But if you havent owned the car long enough and/or do the work on the car then you can't say that it isnt from a previous time before. If the the clutch fluid is black then no doubt should you do your best to flush the old fluid out and replace with new. You established that you think the slave cyl has full motion so this is not the real issue.
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If your shift cables were at fault then you are most likely to see issues with groups of gears i.e 1,3,5 or 2,4,R. Or all if they both were effed. Just try to avoid yanking gears since it doesnt get you going any faster. If you wanted to rule out shift cables then locate the shift linkage on the trans and try to manipulate the shifting yourself instead of the shift cables. OR just try to shift through the gears with the car off. If you had a clutch problem then most likely your issue will exist over all gears when the car is running. But that is all hinged on how bad the problem.

The issue still sounds like a physical problem with the clutch. If the clutch has 117K on it then its up for replacing anyway. Trans would need to come out. You may also be suprised how cheap it is to have the trans inspected for any issues.

In case your interested the rebuild kit for m2y4 is generally $300/400 range. There is also some nice DIY's floating around

Just figured I would bring it up so that you have a chance to contemplate this if it comes to pulling the trans. Opening up the trans is the only way to confirm previous rapage

edit: oh yeah youll need 2.1 QT Honda MTF so get 3 QTs
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowLude97 View Post
Ok I think I may have found the issue. My friend said he did some reasearcj and they said that if the clutch fluid is dirty that is could be the slave cylinder leaking inside the transmission. Does that sound correct?
Lolwut? Slave cylinder is not inside the transmission. Dirty clutch fluid would cause the slave to fail, but if it failed it would not be extending as you say it is.

It's like $50 for a new master and slave cylinder if you want to try that before deciding the clutch is bad. $60 including a big bottle of dot3 to put new fluid in.

As you said though, if the slave is working, then the master is working. If adjusting the pedal doesn't fix it, you need to suspect the clutch itself.

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Old 06-01-2012, 12:06 PM   #16
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Shifter cables. I am thinking of grabing some myself. My up and down movement is fine but side to side is really stiff for me.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:00 AM   #17
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Id also recommend replacing the "special bolt" in the shift box be replaced aswell. You should use nothing but OEM replacement bolt here.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:44 PM   #18
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Similair thing happened to my lude( 98 ), would shift fine when the car was off, ( eventually loss reverse ) but when driving would go in not grind at all but just be a pain in the as to put in gear, tried everything you mentioned above and more, but ended up being easier to just buy a used trans & replace the tranny, lots of prelude and accord trannys are close to direct bolt on to the ( H22 ) & easy to find .

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Old 06-04-2012, 05:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkbapeh View Post
Similair thing happened to my lude( 98 ), would shift fine when the car was off, ( eventually loss reverse ) but when driving would go in not grind at all but just be a pain in the as to put in gear, tried everything you mentioned above and more, but ended up being easier to just buy a used trans & replace the tranny, lots of prelude and accord trannys are close to direct bolt on to the ( H22 ) & easy to find .
hmm...im not sure if the op described specific gear loss. the issue you describe is a known issue that can be intermittent. AND a broken clutch can be intermittent aswell. Both of those issues are VERY dependant on severity

Its more likely a clutch issue still. Either way a new clutch is needed for whichever you do.

Junk yard trans may not be ideal. Possibly warranty IF you DONT OPEN....atleast from my experiences. m2y4 trans is scarce around my area atleast and I wouldnt recommend changing your trans far from what would have came in a prelude at one point....well atleast if your doing this on the cheap.
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