DIY: Official 5th Gen Timing Belt Job Procedure! (by JLUDE 03/11/08) - Page 2 - Honda Prelude Forum : Honda Prelude Forums
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Old 03-11-2008, 11:58 PM   #26
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Thats a very up-in-the-air thing for me. I don't know if I can handle this... but then again, I do work at a dealership, so if I do it myself and need a hand I can poach the mechanics to give me a hand
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:20 AM   #27
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I would give rep but it wont let me

GOOD stuff
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Old 03-12-2008, 05:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkumaR6 View Post
awesome write-up! the only thing i dont get is how you removed the cam and balance shaft seals. i dont see a way to pry them out
I used a very small sharp flat blade screwdriver to pry at the edge till I caught the seal enough that it started working it's way out. EagleEyez was telling me they also make seal picks for this that would make it easier. It just took some time...I didn't have a problem getting any of them out.

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Jlude: a little off topic but how hard would you say installing a shock/spring combo would be? easy as installing a sway bar?
Yea keep that question out of this topic but it's a little more difficult than a sway bar. You will need a Mcpherson style spring compressor and the Helms manual or a good writeup.
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:14 AM   #29
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I wonder why nobody is installing a bolt onto the H23 tensionor bracket? In my eyes it's the only thing that keeps proper tension on the timing belt. That little spring is not doing anything. On an H23 there would be a bolt holding that bracket to the block. That's why they have that curved oval adjustment track, that's where the bolt goes.
I installed a bolt with my bracket.

I installed that spring also, but it does nothing. My Accord/H22a buddy could not even get the spring installed with any tension, it was flopping around, so he left it off entirely.

The bracket I refer to can first be viewed in pic # 40, if you count from the first pic in this write up.


I'm curious why that bracket would even get installed if nothing is gonna be bolted to it.

Good write up!!......I'm just curious about that bracket, as it was not even shown in Blake's write up, yet was on the parts list in Blake's write up. Blake's write up showed a pivot pin threaded into the block, and the hole on the top rear side of the timing belt tensionor was shown to be pivoting on that pin. The pin that I recieved would not thread into the block at this top rear (tensionor) location. Instead, it fit that A-bracket that I refer to in this post, and I used it to bolt the H23 tensionor bracket to, thus holding it at a set tension.

Anyone follow what I'm saying/asking ?

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Old 03-12-2008, 11:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinci-91-H View Post
I wonder why nobody is installing a bolt onto the H23 tensionor bracket? In my eyes it's the only thing that keeps proper tension on the timing belt. That little spring is not doing anything. On an H23 there would be a bolt holding that bracket to the block. That's why they have that curved oval adjustment track, that's where the bolt goes.
I installed a bolt with my bracket.

I installed that spring also, but it does nothing. My Accord/H22a buddy could not even get the spring installed with any tension, it was flopping around, so he left it off entirely.

The bracket I refer to can first be viewed in pic # 40, if you count from the first pic in this write up.


I'm curious why that bracket would even get installed if nothing is gonna be bolted to it.

Good write up!!......I'm just curious about that bracket, as it was not even shown in Blake's write up, yet was on the parts list in Blake's write up. Blake's write up showed a pivot pin threaded into the block, and the hole on the top rear side of the timing belt tensionor was shown to be pivoting on that pin. The pin that I recieved would not thread into the block at this top rear (tensionor) location. Instead, it fit that A-bracket that I refer to in this post, and I used it to bolt the H23 tensionor bracket to, thus holding it at a set tension.

Anyone follow what I'm saying/asking ?
I know exactly what you are saying. I came to the conclusion that that bolt that would go in that little oval track to hold the tensioner in a certain position would only be useful for keeping it at a set tension UNTIL YOU TIGHTEN DOWN THE 14mm Tension pulley nut, at that point the little bolt holding the track would be doing nothing anyway as the main tensioner pulley nut is holding the tensioner plenty tight once torqued down. It might be a good extra safety that the tensioner won't shift but if you tighten that little bolt down there would then be NO WAY to re-adjust the tensioner without taking the entire engine mount and timing covers completely off.

This is what I'm getting at:
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:53 AM   #31
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I know exactly what you are saying. I came to the conclusion that that bolt that would go in that little oval track to hold the tensioner in a certain position would only be useful for keeping it at a set tension UNTIL YOU TIGHTEN DOWN THE 14mm Tension pulley nut, at that point the little bolt holding the track would be doing nothing anyway as the main tensioner pulley nut is holding the tensioner plenty tight once torqued down. It might be a good extra safety that the tensioner won't shift but if you tighten that little bolt down there would then be NO WAY to re-adjust the tensioner without taking the entire engine mount and timing covers completely off.

^^THANK YOU for the reply!!!......I was kinda thinking along those lines, but wasn't sure if I was thinking correctly. I guess I have that added bit of safety, as well as the added pain in the ass for future adjustments, lol. I agree though, now that I re-think about it, that the 14mm main nut that you speak of, does indeed smash both the balancer and timing belt pulleys against the block rather tightly. Thanks Jlude!!!
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:10 PM   #32
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For anybody having problems with the Crank Bolt, I have a trick that works like a charm given to me by an old master mechanic. It sounds ghetto and risky but it works quite well (in a jam). I have used this on my 626 and my old 86 prelude, but would have to confirm that the crank on the 5th gen spins the correct way (Clockwise). I vaugly remember doing this on the 97 Lude, but can't remember for the life of me what I was working on to warrant the pully being loosened.

Before you start pulling everything apart, just jack up the driver side front and remove the tire. Try to loosen the bolt by all methods you have at your disposal FIRST. If all else fails, place an extra support stand and the jack just in case the car shifts. Unplug your Ignition coil, pull your plugs, or pull your fuel pump fuse so your car WILL NOT START and try to start it to make sure. Place the breaker bar on the crank bolt and support the end on the ground or other available support (as far from vertical as you can). Bump the engine with the key for LESS THAN ONE REVOLUTION (as long as it takes to say "bump"). This is why you have to make sure the crank goes clockwise and you support the breaker bar so it is supported from the clockwise rotation..... turning the bolt counter clockwise. I have had to do this 3 seperate occasions and it works really well. The first time I tried everything including taking it into a mechanic to use an impact to crack the bolt, and this is the only thing that worked. I had to bump 3 times when we heard the loud "Crack" signifying that frigging bolt was finally free. I had a spotter who said only the engine lightly jolted, and was supprised how well it worked after all our hesitation.

This it to be done at your own risk. Use common sense and caution if you try this....... but it does work. Both (three?) cars I did this on never had any problems related to doing this. The only thing I was concerned with was the starter......... and they outlasted the cars.
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:24 PM   #33
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great writeup man. thanks for the info.
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:12 PM   #34
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great pics and write up, but you did WAY More work than you ever have to...

all the accessories can stay bolted to the engine...I usually unbolt the p/s pump and set it aside (with hoses attached) for the extra room, but its not necessary.

the bumper and headlight? only if you're super ambitious... again, very unnecessary.

also, I would never reuse oil or coolant I drained from the engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyk75 View Post
For anybody having problems with the Crank Bolt, I have a trick that works like a charm given to me by an old master mechanic. It sounds ghetto and risky but it works quite well (in a jam). I have used this on my 626 and my old 86 prelude, but would have to confirm that the crank on the 5th gen spins the correct way (Clockwise). I vaugly remember doing this on the 97 Lude, but can't remember for the life of me what I was working on to warrant the pully being loosened.

Before you start pulling everything apart, just jack up the driver side front and remove the tire. Try to loosen the bolt by all methods you have at your disposal FIRST. If all else fails, place an extra support stand and the jack just in case the car shifts. Unplug your Ignition coil, pull your plugs, or pull your fuel pump fuse so your car WILL NOT START and try to start it to make sure. Place the breaker bar on the crank bolt and support the end on the ground or other available support (as far from vertical as you can). Bump the engine with the key for LESS THAN ONE REVOLUTION (as long as it takes to say "bump"). This is why you have to make sure the crank goes clockwise and you support the breaker bar so it is supported from the clockwise rotation..... turning the bolt counter clockwise. I have had to do this 3 seperate occasions and it works really well. The first time I tried everything including taking it into a mechanic to use an impact to crack the bolt, and this is the only thing that worked. I had to bump 3 times when we heard the loud "Crack" signifying that frigging bolt was finally free. I had a spotter who said only the engine lightly jolted, and was supprised how well it worked after all our hesitation.

This it to be done at your own risk. Use common sense and caution if you try this....... but it does work. Both (three?) cars I did this on never had any problems related to doing this. The only thing I was concerned with was the starter......... and they outlasted the cars.
jesus christ...do NOT use this method on a honda! WTF?
they spin the opposite direction.
if you want a broken crank pulley bolt (yea...broken off IN the crankshaft) go ahead and follow this advice.
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:19 PM   #35
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Great writeup, a benefit to the community!
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyk75 View Post
For anybody having problems with the Crank Bolt, I have a trick that works like a charm given to me by an old master mechanic. It sounds ghetto and risky but it works quite well (in a jam). I have used this on my 626 and my old 86 prelude, but would have to confirm that the crank on the 5th gen spins the correct way (Clockwise). I vaugly remember doing this on the 97 Lude, but can't remember for the life of me what I was working on to warrant the pully being loosened.

Before you start pulling everything apart, just jack up the driver side front and remove the tire. Try to loosen the bolt by all methods you have at your disposal FIRST. If all else fails, place an extra support stand and the jack just in case the car shifts. Unplug your Ignition coil, pull your plugs, or pull your fuel pump fuse so your car WILL NOT START and try to start it to make sure. Place the breaker bar on the crank bolt and support the end on the ground or other available support (as far from vertical as you can). Bump the engine with the key for LESS THAN ONE REVOLUTION (as long as it takes to say "bump"). This is why you have to make sure the crank goes clockwise and you support the breaker bar so it is supported from the clockwise rotation..... turning the bolt counter clockwise. I have had to do this 3 seperate occasions and it works really well. The first time I tried everything including taking it into a mechanic to use an impact to crack the bolt, and this is the only thing that worked. I had to bump 3 times when we heard the loud "Crack" signifying that frigging bolt was finally free. I had a spotter who said only the engine lightly jolted, and was supprised how well it worked after all our hesitation.

This it to be done at your own risk. Use common sense and caution if you try this....... but it does work. Both (three?) cars I did this on never had any problems related to doing this. The only thing I was concerned with was the starter......... and they outlasted the cars.
DO NOT try this on the prelude! The crank spins counter-clockwise and this would only make the crank pulley tighter! And possibly destroy your starter!

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Originally Posted by tsiah View Post
great pics and write up, but you did WAY More work than you ever have to...

all the accessories can stay bolted to the engine...I usually unbolt the p/s pump and set it aside (with hoses attached) for the extra room, but its not necessary.

the bumper and headlight? only if you're super ambitious... again, very unnecessary.

also, I would never reuse oil or coolant I drained from the engine...



jesus christ...do NOT use this method on a honda! WTF?
they spin the opposite direction.
if you want a broken crank pulley bolt (yea...broken off IN the crankshaft) go ahead and follow this advice.
I removed the bumper and headlight because I was doing some tweaking on my retrofits....but it did make the job easier.

As for removing accessories, I always remove anything I can to make more room in the work area. I can't stand tight working, it leads to extreme frustration and I can't enjoy working on my car if I'm frustrated!

You're right about the poor method to break the crank loose. This method could also cause a broken starter!
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:31 PM   #37
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Very nice right up Jlude as always.
One question, or comment I guess, that special holder wrench for the crank pulley would be what the helms manual talks about to hold it all in place while you torque the crank bolt correct? Assuming you were using a conventional torque wrench that is.
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:45 AM   #38
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Very nice right up Jlude as always.
One question, or comment I guess, that special holder wrench for the crank pulley would be what the helms manual talks about to hold it all in place while you torque the crank bolt correct? Assuming you were using a conventional torque wrench that is.
Yea that special tool would help but I use a 24" chain wrench over the old AC drive belt on the crank pulley to hold it from spinning during torquing and breaking loose...works like a charm.
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:55 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by JLude View Post


I removed the bumper and headlight because I was doing some tweaking on my retrofits....but it did make the job easier.

As for removing accessories, I always remove anything I can to make more room in the work area. I can't stand tight working, it leads to extreme frustration and I can't enjoy working on my car if I'm frustrated!

You're right about the poor method to break the crank loose. This method could also cause a broken starter!
*shrug* thats how I work, but I never do more work than I need to. if its in the way, I'll get it out of the way, but I don't see any need to get EVERYTHING out

if all you wound up with was a broken starter by doing that on a honda, I'd consider you lucky.
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Old 03-17-2008, 07:27 AM   #40
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if all you wound up with was a broken starter by doing that on a honda, I'd consider you lucky.
Well, other than the fact that you would NEVER get the crank bolt loose with that ghetto method due to the crank turning the opposite way.

lol.
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Old 03-17-2008, 07:52 AM   #41
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Yea that special tool would help but I use a 24" chain wrench over the old AC drive belt on the crank pulley to hold it from spinning during torquing and breaking loose...works like a charm.
That would work too, lol. Good idea.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:57 AM   #42
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I have the 55mm hex tool for locking the crank pulley, it works flawlessly and makes the job super easy and safe. I got mine for about $69 shipped.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:01 AM   #43
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I have the 55mm hex tool for locking the crank pulley, it works flawlessly and makes the job super easy and safe. I got mine for about $69 shipped.
Regardless, if your crank bolt is as tight as mine was you will not be able to get it with a breaker bar and the special tool....impact gun at a shop before starting this job at home is your best bet.

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Old 03-17-2008, 12:57 PM   #44
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I have a 1000 lb/ft impact gun and it won't take out crank pulleys (actually it'll get civics...but they're a 14mm thread and they're only torqued to ~130 lb/ft instead of the ~185 lb/ft on the rest of the engines)

I always used the special tool when I worked at the dealership (I own one but it doesn't do much good unless you have a lift.) we had a ~4ft handle on the tool and a 3ft breaker bar...wedge the special tool against the lower control arm and just crank on the breaker bar (or lean against it...or kick ) it was the only way to do it without buying a 3/4" drive impact
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:29 PM   #45
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Quick question, please move or delete if this is the wrong thread but every shop i've gone to about this job has told me that the auto-tensioner will be fine and I dont need to swap it for a manual. I even asked if it would be ok with some aftermarket cams and what not and they said I would be safe. Anyone else in a similar situation?
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:53 PM   #46
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i was considering trying this over the summer.. definitely not


x2,131,231,231,231
I was thinking about doing it myself also but uhhh
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:40 PM   #47
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okaay, so since id idn't want to make another thread i had a question. Im almost done my timing belt job but i ran into a small problem. When rotating my crank pully to TDC, the first one lines up vertically and horizontally, the second one though, is off by 1-2 groves and doesn't align horizontally correctly.

It does Align but it has some force behind it when aligning the marks, while the first one has some "free space" when trying to get the pully TDC, while the second one does not. Do i have a huge problem here, my father says we could just adjust the valves or something
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:58 PM   #48
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Quick question, please move or delete if this is the wrong thread but every shop i've gone to about this job has told me that the auto-tensioner will be fine and I dont need to swap it for a manual. I even asked if it would be ok with some aftermarket cams and what not and they said I would be safe. Anyone else in a similar situation?
My auto-tensioner failed at 74k mi. I can't speak for others, but I am pissed off that such a tiny thing has caused a huge host of problems.
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Old 06-27-2008, 01:28 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by bnuts View Post
okaay, so since id idn't want to make another thread i had a question. Im almost done my timing belt job but i ran into a small problem. When rotating my crank pully to TDC, the first one lines up vertically and horizontally, the second one though, is off by 1-2 groves and doesn't align horizontally correctly.

It does Align but it has some force behind it when aligning the marks, while the first one has some "free space" when trying to get the pully TDC, while the second one does not. Do i have a huge problem here, my father says we could just adjust the valves or something
I assume you are talking about the cam gears?If you're having a hard time getting both cam gears at TDC it helps a lot to loosen all the valves fully. Then once you get the T-belt all set and done then adjust all your valves to spec. By loosening the valves the cam isn't having to compress all the stiff valve springs as you struggle to get them both at TDC. - JL
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:43 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLude View Post
I assume you are talking about the cam gears?If you're having a hard time getting both cam gears at TDC it helps a lot to loosen all the valves fully. Then once you get the T-belt all set and done then adjust all your valves to spec. By loosening the valves the cam isn't having to compress all the stiff valve springs as you struggle to get them both at TDC. - JL

okay thanks man! now where to get h22a valve specs? =/ haha
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