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  #1  
Old 06-13-2009, 03:52 AM
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H22A_lude H22A_lude is offline
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Euro R intake manifold

By far the best bolt on you can do to your H22. A noticable jump in power, even from my butt dyno. Sounds alittle bit different. Well worth the money from Rosko.

Bolted on and tuned, I've seen dyno's of them making around 8-10whp. This is a midrange power adder, so don't expect huge, high-end gains.

Last edited by H22A_lude; 06-13-2009 at 04:00 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2009, 09:10 PM
HONDARAVER HONDARAVER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H22A_lude View Post
By far the best bolt on you can do to your H22. A noticable jump in power, even from my butt dyno. Sounds alittle bit different. Well worth the money from Rosko.

Bolted on and tuned, I've seen dyno's of them making around 8-10whp. This is a midrange power adder, so don't expect huge, high-end gains.
I too am thinking about these and have heard great things from many ppl...
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  #3  
Old 06-25-2009, 04:35 PM
Ryosuke6 Ryosuke6 is offline
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Got one, Definately made a diference. Would recommend this to anyone.
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  #4  
Old 07-09-2009, 06:48 AM
nitin_s1 nitin_s1 is offline
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By Euro R manifold... do you guys mean the manifold that comes in accord type R's ??
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2009, 08:48 AM
team123luder team123luder is offline
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This helped me net 211whp and 170tq.... guy it.
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2009, 11:30 AM
h22wut h22wut is offline
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is this im any better than the skunk2 one? jw
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2009, 12:18 PM
team123luder team123luder is offline
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Depends on your setup. For peak power get the skunk 2. Peak is where the skunk 2 shines but the euro r just crushes on that nice power curve
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2009, 03:50 PM
AbsoluteVTEC AbsoluteVTEC is offline
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Originally Posted by team123luder View Post
Depends on your setup. For peak power get the skunk 2. Peak is where the skunk 2 shines but the euro r just crushes on that nice power curve
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How much and where can I buy/find the euro R intake manifold? Who'll do the installation?
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2009, 10:47 AM
eholm522 eholm522 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteVTEC View Post
How much and where can I buy/find the euro R intake manifold? Who'll do the installation?

www.roskoracing.com
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Robert Taylor Robert Taylor is offline
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That intake was designed for a engine with a much higher power band probably requiring you to run your H22 engine into the red line zone in the 7400 to 7700 rpm level , which will shorting the life of your engine and eventually cause a increase in power robbing cylinder blow buy around its rings , in order to achieve any advantage . When you find it necessary to install a catch can on your engine , don't blame it on Honda . I have herd , but am not sure , that the ECU employs a soft limiter above 7400 rpm to discourage people from fucking up their engine which would limit your gains without a reprogramming of the ECU .

Euro Accord Engine Details :
8500 rpm red line for the F20b vs a 7400 rpm red line for the H22a4 .

It included a 2.0L F20B engine rated 200 PS (197 hp/147 kW) (180 PS (178 hp/132 kW) automatic) and 144.5 lbft (196 Nm), 11.0.1 compression, 8500rpm redline unlike H-series VTEC engines that from factory is limited to 7800 rpms. The F20B uses a unique blue valve cover. Like all the larger displacement Honda engines, the F20B is mounted with a tilt towards the driver.

or

H22a

Displacement (cc):
2157
Power (bhp@rpm):
220 @ 7,200 rpm ..........vs 7000 rpm
Torque (ft/lbs@rpm):
163 @ 6,500 rpm .........vs 5200 rpm
Compression Ratio:
11:1.............................vs 10:1 meaning that intake tunning to match the air pulses going in and out are different
Bore (mm):
87
Stroke (mm):
90.7
Cam Design:
DOHC
Valve Train
VTEC

It looks like your trying to put a square peg into a round hole . lol

Last edited by Robert Taylor; 08-29-2009 at 12:44 PM. Reason: add H22a specs
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2009, 12:14 PM
Blue01 Blue01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Taylor View Post
Euro Accord Engine Details :

It included a 2.0L F20B engine rated 200 PS (197 hp/147 kW) (180 PS (178 hp/132 kW) automatic) and 144.5 lbft (196 Nm), 11.0.1 compression, 8500rpm redline unlike H-series VTEC engines that from factory is limited to 7800 rpms. The F20B uses a unique blue valve cover. Like all the larger displacement Honda engines, the F20B is mounted with a tilt towards the driver.
That is not correct.

The single runner intake manifold was used on the H22A7 Accord Type-R and the H22A Accord Euro-R. Both have the same redline as a normal H22, and make peak power in around the same range as a normal H22 Type-S.

The F20B did not come with a single runner intake manifold, it came with the standard H22 style twin runner IM.
The F20B's indicated redline is about 7400 RPM and in stock form it generates peak power around the same area as 220PS H22 Type-S. While its short stroke will allow it to carry power easily, it needs bigger than stock cams to do that.
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2009, 12:25 PM
Robert Taylor Robert Taylor is offline
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Without re gearing the transmission , or flogging the engine above its red line point to stay in its new power band , this difference in specs is a big deal .

Torque (ft/lbs@rpm):
163 @ 6,500 rpm .........vs 5200 rpm

Peak torque has been moved up 1300 rpm which is something they could get away with because they have more available torque to work with .The bulk of the torque increase probably came from the higher compression ratio and the cams that were designed to exploit the higher compression ratio and the less restrictive intake . The type of fuel it required may have been a factor why this engine did not come to the US .

Last edited by Robert Taylor; 08-29-2009 at 12:46 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2009, 12:59 PM
Blue01 Blue01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Taylor View Post
Without re gearing the transmission , or flogging the engine above its red line point to stay in its new power band , this difference in specs is a big deal .

Torque (ft/lbs@rpm):
163 @ 6,500 rpm .........vs 5200 rpm

Peak torque has been moved up 1300 rpm which is something they could get away with because they have more available torque to work with .The bulk of the torque increase probably came from the higher compression ratio and the cams that were designed to exploit the higher compression ratio and the less restrictive intake . The type of fuel it required may have been a factor why this engine did not come to the US .
You can't say that an increase in peak torque has any negative effects just by the fact that it is at a higher RPM. Does the motor actually make less torque at 5200 than the old motor?

You quote a torque peak of the Prelude Type-S, by the way, which comes with the dual stage intake manifold. The Accord Euro-R is quoted at 6700 for peak torque.

If you want something with a low torque peak that will keep running longer than you are alive, perhaps you should look into a SOHC Prelude, which will make peak torque at 4500 RPM. It will also be very slow, because the unfortunate thing about engines is, the faster they can be spun (and still produce power), the faster they will make a car go. Formula 1 engines are in so many ways utterly conventional...no exotic variable valve timing, turbos, variable geometry intakes, run on gasoline...but they make over 700HP out of 2.4 liters of displacement....caused by RPM.

Heck, a regular H22 (6800RPM power peak), if maximum acceleration is desired, should be shifted at fuel cut off in the first three gears. Just like an H22 Type S or H22 Euro R.

If you want something that is going to last longer but also go quickly, maybe you should get a bigger engine or something with a turbo.
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Robert Taylor Robert Taylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue01 View Post
You can't say that an increase in peak torque has any negative effects just by the fact that it is at a higher RPM. Does the motor actually make less torque at 5200 than the old motor?

You quote a torque peak of the Prelude Type-S, by the way, which comes with the dual stage intake manifold. The Accord Euro-R is quoted at 6700 for peak torque.

If you want something with a low torque peak that will keep running longer than you are alive, perhaps you should look into a SOHC Prelude, which will make peak torque at 4500 RPM. It will also be very slow, because the unfortunate thing about engines is, the faster they can be spun (and still produce power), the faster they will make a car go. Formula 1 engines are in so many ways utterly conventional...no exotic variable valve timing, turbos, variable geometry intakes, run on gasoline...but they make over 700HP out of 2.4 liters of displacement....caused by RPM.

Heck, a regular H22 (6800RPM power peak), if maximum acceleration is desired, should be shifted at fuel cut off in the first three gears. Just like an H22 Type S or H22 Euro R.

If you want something that is going to last longer but also go quickly, maybe you should get a bigger engine or something with a turbo.
So it sounds like to me that you feel that you can install a intake that was not designed for a stock H22A4 engine and achieve both increases in power on both the top end and the bottom end of the band of rpms the H22A4 is designed to work . Dream on ! People come on web sites and make a big deal about the top end power increases they achieve but don't bother to mention the loss of power in the mid range rpms or the loss of throttle response . Most dynos provide the engine builder with what is referred to as something close to static analysis P= f( rpm) of the performance of the engine and do nothing to describe the dynamic or effects P = f(dt) or to put it another way how fast HP builds up when you nail the throttle at any given engine speed .

Last edited by Robert Taylor; 08-29-2009 at 01:57 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2009, 03:19 PM
DJTEMA DJTEMA is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert Taylor View Post
So it sounds like to me that you feel that you can install a intake that was not designed for a stock H22A4 engine and achieve both increases in power on both the top end and the bottom end of the band of rpms the H22A4 is designed to work . Dream on ! People come on web sites and make a big deal about the top end power increases they achieve but don't bother to mention the loss of power in the mid range rpms or the loss of throttle response . Most dynos provide the engine builder with what is referred to as something close to static analysis P= f( rpm) of the performance of the engine and do nothing to describe the dynamic or effects P = f(dt) or to put it another way how fast HP builds up when you nail the throttle at any given engine speed .
aye genius.

check out the dyno charts for a euro r mani on a h22.

guess were it improves on the stock one?

MIDRANGE.
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2009, 03:41 PM
Blue01 Blue01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert Taylor View Post
So it sounds like...
I would not expect putting a single runner intake manifold to increase bottom end power on a H22A4, no. It has been dynoed to increase top end power on stock (non-type S) H22s (6000RPM to redline). That's the tradeoff one makes - if one desired to go fast and has a H22, the engine should never ever be turning 4,000 RPM...you're just wasting time there. So you shouldn't design your engine to make lots of power there.

That said, there are things to be said about a flexible motor, one that pulls pretty good at wide range of RPMs. Certainly I do enough sorts of driving to appreciate that as well. Or I'm too lazy to shift.


I'd expect the Euro-R manifold have pretty good transient throttle characteristics...some of the stuff that went into the late model H22s went into the F20C, which there is lots of literature on. The Euro-R manifold has a pretty small plenum like the F20C, which Honda will love to tell you they went some lengths on to design for transient characteristics.
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  #17  
Old 08-30-2009, 09:08 AM
Robert Taylor Robert Taylor is offline
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[quote=Blue01;2270774]I would not expect putting a single runner intake manifold to increase bottom end power on a H22A4, no. It has been dynoed to increase top end power on stock (non-type S) H22s (6000RPM to redline). That's the tradeoff one makes - if one desired to go fast and has a H22, the engine should never ever be turning 4,000 RPM...you're just wasting time there. So you shouldn't design your engine to make lots of power there.

That said, there are things to be said about a flexible motor, one that pulls pretty good at wide range of RPMs. Certainly I do enough sorts of driving to appreciate that as well. Or I'm too lazy to shift.


Its not about being to lazy to shift . With the Preludes stock 2nd gearing , the rpm range between 4000 and 5000 rpm would occur in the range of speeds between 34 and 42 mph . Because the 1st gear red lines at 36 mph , down shifting to 1st is not an option when going those speeds unless your into ridding your clutch . lol So if you install a intake that reduces power in that rpm range then you must re gear your transmission to fit the engines new power band . In order to maintain a power band of a suitable width one would will probably have to regularly flog their engine in the red zone between 7400 and 7700 rpm s . I remember reading an article a long time ago that stated that because the long stroke configuration in the H22 engine , at red line the piston speed at the time was nearly as fast as some formula one engines so think about that .

Last edited by Robert Taylor; 08-30-2009 at 09:23 AM. Reason: riding your clutch
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2009, 12:20 PM
98vtec 98vtec is offline
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[QUOTE=Robert Taylor;2271399]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue01 View Post
I would not expect putting a single runner intake manifold to increase bottom end power on a H22A4, no. It has been dynoed to increase top end power on stock (non-type S) H22s (6000RPM to redline). That's the tradeoff one makes - if one desired to go fast and has a H22, the engine should never ever be turning 4,000 RPM...you're just wasting time there. So you shouldn't design your engine to make lots of power there.

That said, there are things to be said about a flexible motor, one that pulls pretty good at wide range of RPMs. Certainly I do enough sorts of driving to appreciate that as well. Or I'm too lazy to shift.


Its not about being to lazy to shift . With the Preludes stock 2nd gearing , the rpm range between 4000 and 5000 rpm would occur in the range of speeds between 34 and 42 mph . Because the 1st gear red lines at 36 mph , down shifting to 1st is not an option when going those speeds unless your into ridding your clutch . lol So if you install a intake that reduces power in that rpm range then you must re gear your transmission to fit the engines new power band . In order to maintain a power band of a suitable width one would will probably have to regularly flog their engine in the red zone between 7400 and 7700 rpm s . I remember reading an article a long time ago that stated that because the long stroke configuration in the H22 engine , at red line the piston speed at the time was nearly as fast as some formula one engines so think about that .
you are over analyzing.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2009, 05:58 PM
eholm522 eholm522 is offline
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is he saying the stock h22's redline at 6k come on guy what honda really redlines there? lol maybe a focus (ford)
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2009, 07:46 PM
5thgenftmfw 5thgenftmfw is offline
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Now that you guys have completely nerded up this post..

Going off of what I gathered:

Euro mani.. better midrange

Skunk 2.. better top end

But just depends on what your car is built for, also.

Which one is cheaper, and how hard is the swap, between the two?
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  #21  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:15 AM
eholm522 eholm522 is offline
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I prefer the euro r. mostly because my car is not drag raced but street driven. so i enjoy the midrange power.
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:38 PM
marmot marmot is offline
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http://www.roskoracing.com/Euro_R_Manifolds.html

so is the block off package necessary to do the conversion? if not, what are the advantages of these for racing?

Last edited by marmot; 10-09-2009 at 12:54 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-10-2009, 02:43 AM
H22A_lude H22A_lude is offline
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Block off plate for what? The EGR? All H22 EGR valves are the same, so you can bolt it right on the Euro R manifold. You would have to buy the EGR cover plate ether wise you'd have some nasty issues.
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  #24  
Old 10-10-2009, 04:22 PM
ludedude88 ludedude88 is offline
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so would adding this to a stock h22 with 2.5" exhaust, header, and tuning be worth having or do other mods need to be added to increase power enought to matter?
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  #25  
Old 10-11-2009, 02:57 AM
H22A_lude H22A_lude is offline
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Originally Posted by ludedude88 View Post
so would adding this to a stock h22 with 2.5" exhaust, header, and tuning be worth having or do other mods need to be added to increase power enought to matter?
Out of all of the bolt on's I have, my Euro R and 68mm throttle body made the biggest difference on my butt dyno. I didn't feel a difference with any of my other bolt on's. Now with S300, a motoxxman basemap and some A/F tuning done by me, the torque curve feels even better. It's deffinently much faster after the S300. My modds are...

H22A
CAI with BPI velocity stack and K&N filter
Professional Products 68mm TB
Euro R manifold(rosko'd)
JDM RS*R header
60mm tesp pipe and exhaust

I planned on getting an actual tune done with this set up but now I'm wanting some cams.
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