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Old 03-18-2017, 08:25 AM   #1
89prludesi
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Clutch bleeding and coolant

Ok, I finally have the car all back together and have been driving it for a couple days now. It is SO nice to be driving her again! I have a brand new clutch and slave cylinder. Having real problems bleeding it though. I have bled the hell out of it. All the gears work fine except for 1st. The ONLY way I can get into first is the car needs to be barely rolling or stopped and I HAVE to put it into 2nd then and only then will it go into first. I may try to bleed again today and see if I see any more air bubbles. I have my wife doing the pedal pumping while I watch my reservoir and my container. My container is above the slave cylinder as recommended on a post that I saw in here. If there is still air then I am starting to assume that I may have a leak elsewhere that is allowing air to get in. Could this be synchros? The rest of the gears shift perfect with NO grinding. I am also going to put in coolant, so I don't get any more rust problems. That is what started this whole mess. The shop manual says you have to take out the reservoir tank. That looks to be a real pain. Is that really necessary? I realize they say that so you can fully empty it, but it looks to me like the front bumper would have to be pulled at least halfway off? Am I wrong on this? Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:10 AM   #2
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Sounds like a synchro problem, not a clutch problem. How is the engagement? Does the clutch grab immediately off the floor or do you have a little bit of travel before it starts to grab?

As for the overflow, I'd leave it. Just maintain the coolant mixture in the pressurized part of the cooling system - water in the overflow will be mixed in with each heat cycle. It'll also evaporate a bit - over time coolant mixture gets stronger.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:19 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Run_Away View Post
Sounds like a synchro problem, not a clutch problem. How is the engagement? Does the clutch grab immediately off the floor or do you have a little bit of travel before it starts to grab?

As for the overflow, I'd leave it. Just maintain the coolant mixture in the pressurized part of the cooling system - water in the overflow will be mixed in with each heat cycle. It'll also evaporate a bit - over time coolant mixture gets stronger.
Clutch grabs VERY well. When clutch pedal is pushed all the way to floor, it doesnt come up much before it starts grabbing. I have looked in the shop manual at the drawing they have of the pedal dimensions for free play etc. and that is pretty much what I have. Before when I did the coolant I think I just flushed everything out (without touching the reservoir) and just dumped the anti-freeze in and topped with water if needed and bled it.
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Old 03-18-2017, 01:55 PM   #4
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It's pretty normal for 3rd gens to not go smoothly into first gear. I've owned 5 of them and they all did this to some degree. In my current lude I need to pretty much be at a stop to put it into first, and sometimes I have to go between second and first a couple times before it goes into first.

You don't need to remove the coolant reservoir, as Run_Away said. It's more important make sure that if you are not using pre-mixed coolant, you should use distilled or de-ionized water to mix with the coolant. Never use tap water for this. Tap water contains minerals, which will cause deposits over time in your cooling system. This is especially a problem in the radiator because it will impair the flow of water through the cooling tubes, impairing heat transfer, and will eventually contribute to overheating.
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Old 03-18-2017, 03:52 PM   #5
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It's pretty normal for 3rd gens to not go smoothly into first gear. I've owned 5 of them and they all did this to some degree. In my current lude I need to pretty much be at a stop to put it into first, and sometimes I have to go between second and first a couple times before it goes into first.

You don't need to remove the coolant reservoir, as Run_Away said. It's more important make sure that if you are not using pre-mixed coolant, you should use distilled or de-ionized water to mix with the coolant. Never use tap water for this. Tap water contains minerals, which will cause deposits over time in your cooling system. This is especially a problem in the radiator because it will impair the flow of water through the cooling tubes, impairing heat transfer, and will eventually contribute to overheating.
Ok...thanks for the good info. Yeah I almost have the cooling system done now. I did use distilled water. I know this has been covered before (tranny fluid) but in your opinion what is the best fluid that I should be running that would promote to the best shifting that I can get? I know these trannies dont shift real smooth anyway. I just put 40w motor oil in. I know the shop manual says either honta mtf or 30w or 40w motor oil. The thread that I read on here also said some people are putting in 90w gear oil. I had a bunch of 40w for the engine so thats what I put in it. I know a bunch of years ago I had an '82 (I think) honda accord that had a 5 speed in it. I rebuilt the engine and put in 90w gear oil in it. I drove it for maybe 2 hours before I wasted every bearing and gear in it...and it cracked the entire tranny case!! By the time I limped it home first gear was the ONLY gear that still worked. So I am leary of putting in gear oil unless these trannies really can handle it fine and there is good reason to do so.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by luzer View Post
It's pretty normal for 3rd gens to not go smoothly into first gear. I've owned 5 of them and they all did this to some degree. In my current lude I need to pretty much be at a stop to put it into first, and sometimes I have to go between second and first a couple times before it goes into first.
Hmmm, my lude count is 8 and I dont remember any of mine acting like that. I guess thats not competely true, one of my current ones requires more force into 1st when cold and moving. But definately no grinding, that sounds like sleight clutch drag.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:30 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 89prludesi View Post
Ok...thanks for the good info. Yeah I almost have the cooling system done now. I did use distilled water. I know this has been covered before (tranny fluid) but in your opinion what is the best fluid that I should be running that would promote to the best shifting that I can get? I know these trannies dont shift real smooth anyway. I just put 40w motor oil in. I know the shop manual says either honta mtf or 30w or 40w motor oil. The thread that I read on here also said some people are putting in 90w gear oil.
40w is fine, 30w is better, Honda MTF is best.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by luda8890 View Post
Hmmm, my lude count is 8 and I dont remember any of mine acting like that. I guess thats not competely true, one of my current ones requires more force into 1st when cold and moving. But definately no grinding, that sounds like sleight clutch drag.
I have NO grinding in any gear. First is just a bit hard going in...but not bad if car is moving very slow and I shift into 2nd before going into 1st. The rest of the gears shift perfect, including reverse. Maybe I will try the honda mtf when I do another change. It is brand new oil and I dont want to drain.
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzer View Post
It's pretty normal for 3rd gens to not go smoothly into first gear. I've owned 5 of them and they all did this to some degree. In my current lude I need to pretty much be at a stop to put it into first, and sometimes I have to go between second and first a couple times before it goes into first.

You don't need to remove the coolant reservoir, as Run_Away said. It's more important make sure that if you are not using pre-mixed coolant, you should use distilled or de-ionized water to mix with the coolant. Never use tap water for this. Tap water contains minerals, which will cause deposits over time in your cooling system. This is especially a problem in the radiator because it will impair the flow of water through the cooling tubes, impairing heat transfer, and will eventually contribute to overheating.
As it turns out I guess I dont have a coolant resevoir...UGH. Went to fill it when I was done with the coolant and realized it pours out the bottom as fast as I can pour it in. I guess I will have to try and find one. So at some point I will end up pulling my bumper off...figures.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luda8890 View Post
Hmmm, my lude count is 8 and I dont remember any of mine acting like that. I guess thats not competely true, one of my current ones requires more force into 1st when cold and moving. But definately no grinding, that sounds like sleight clutch drag.
I said nothing about grinding going into first gear. Only that it is sometimes difficult to shift into first.

Preferably Honda MTF, but you can use 5w-30 motor oil or synthetic gear. I once tried conventional gear oil and it was terrible so I would avoid that.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:26 PM   #11
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Ok, I think I figured out the problems. The coolant problem was fixed by pulling the front bumper and replacing the overflow hose (was rotted out). Clutch problem is a bit more of a prob though. I know the last time that I used this tranny, I remember being able to shift in and out of ALL 6 gears very smoothly. After some more investigation I realized that the master cylinder, the hose that runs from reservoir to master cylinder and the hose that hooks to the slave cylinder ALL need replaced. So The clutch just isnt 100% disengaging. It is mostly disengaging though...enough so you can drive it. So I guess I will be replacing all of that now and then hopefully I should be good to go.

Ok, so master cylinder will be here this morning. I am guessing that the short hose that runs from master cylinder to reservoir can just be a standard rubber hose c-clamped in? It currently has what appears to be a rubber braided hose. The other hose is apparently a real problem to get. It looks like it is barely seeping out. I found a ss hose on ebay that looks like has the banjo fittings and bolts. Assuming it is long enough it might work. Sucks you cant just order it from autozone or somewhere. Could I get rid of the clutch damper and just run a ss line from the master all the way to the slave? Will the clutch still work fine w/out the damper (not sure what that does)? I was thinking that if I could take the damper out and run ONE ss line all the way then that would eliminate 2 connections. Good or bad idea?

Last edited by 89prludesi; 03-21-2017 at 06:47 AM. Reason: update
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:18 AM   #12
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1st

In the NSX alot of people use GM Syncro-Mesh mixture because of the "notchy" shifting and this seems to do the job.
Check in at NSXPrime.com and search and there's a pic of the containers of the GM fluid.

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