B18c Itb

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 05:03 PM

A fellow honda owner has planted the seed of toying with ITBs on the GSR when I get my cams and port & polish. Do you guys know much about ITBs as well as the pros and cons?

Ive seen them on the F20C but not the B18C

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 05:06 PM

Heres the link for a set as well and for $1600 they better add some power lol
http://www.jhpusa.com/catalog/produc...roducts_id=456

H22aSwapped · 10-10-2006, 05:24 PM

i asked this the last time someone asked about this: how do you filter those suckers? somewhere said theres little filters you put in there and some people said you dont... is there a filter for ITBs?

MustardCat · 10-10-2006, 05:33 PM

Yes. You can have an individual filter for each, or attach and air box to them and have a single filter for all.

alanoneil · 10-10-2006, 05:57 PM

As far as fitting in the engine bay, you might have clearance issues with thefirewall of the 3g Prelude. They are supposed to give great gains, mainly by evening the air flow so each cylinder gets the exact same amount of air.

Bobnova · 10-10-2006, 06:03 PM

Pros:
Easy to tune the intake runner length, very high flow, excellant top end power.

Cons:
Very hard to tune the air:fuel mixtures.
Very touchy throttle pedal, give it 20% and you get 80% of peak torque.
Very difficult to drive in the wet without lighting the tires up.

For the same $1600 you could turbo it and make a lot more power.

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 06:23 PM

Yeah I was looking at the firewall... Id need some short runners but damn it would look awesome seeing a B18C in full running gear with polished ITBs in a 3rd Gen =D

motoxxxman · 10-10-2006, 06:31 PM

i've been playing with the idea of converting the exhaust ports to be intake ports and putting itb's with true centered ram air in the front of the motor, and making a custom header to mount to the rear of the motor.

it's a lot of work, but damn would that be nice. and then you could use any itb setup you want if its mounted to the front of the motor.

maybe you can talk to a local engine builder about what would be involved in making that happen, as its not something just anyone can do

WGFletch · 10-10-2006, 06:42 PM

if ur willing to spend that much and want power outa it then why wouldnt u just put it towards a turbo and make alot more power?

valenburg · 10-10-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motoxxxman

i've been playing with the idea of converting the exhaust ports to be intake ports and putting itb's with true centered ram air in the front of the motor, and making a custom header to mount to the rear of the motor.

it's a lot of work, but damn would that be nice. and then you could use any itb setup you want if its mounted to the front of the motor.

maybe you can talk to a local engine builder about what would be involved in making that happen, as its not something just anyone can do

how would you do the timing for that? the composites of it are mind boggling

Bobnova · 10-10-2006, 06:50 PM

Timing would be exactly the same, all you'd have to do is get some custom cams for it, and make new manifolds.

The only downsides that i see are the most heads have more coolant around the exhaust ports to cool them, which wouldn't be there with the ports swapped, and that there isn't very much room on the back side of the engine for a header.

fcukwithmeprelude · 10-10-2006, 06:53 PM

Couldn't you just swap the intake and exhaust cams? Wait, that wouldn't work.

Um... wait. Yeah it would. As long as the CPS and distributor line up. And you'd have to readjust all your valves to proper intake/exhaust clearances.

That sounds like one HELL of a project.

OMega · 10-10-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobnova

For the same $1600 you could turbo it and make a lot more power.

Don't forget you can box them when your going fi. I think you could get around the touch throttle by using the right size throttle wheel.

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 06:58 PM

Have you guys heard a Honda DOHC VTEC with ITBs? Lemme go find a link. its insane.... indy car like.... its worth it to me plus everyones got turbos and stuff.... would be cool to be the only B18C 3rd Gen with ITBs... I need to measure lol

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 07:01 PM

Eat your heart out. S2000 with ITB's

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...78f042a005.htm

JDM86lude · 10-10-2006, 07:03 PM

aww u guys are makin me wet myself talkin about itbs i wanted itbs for way to long i love them to def the sound and look of them absoutly true racing

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 07:12 PM

How about this one... H22a Accord. Hell I want the whole damn car.... Sick ride.... yummy.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...5da7a825a2.htm

Bobnova · 10-10-2006, 08:40 PM

You would need custom cams, the cam lobes are set off-center on the cam to work with the fact that the rockers aren't centered with the cam.

It'd screw the profiles up something terrible to be on the "wrong" side of the head.

The best thing to do with the throttle for ITBs is make a progressive setup, so the first 30% of the pedal only turns the throttles maybe 10%, then it ramps up so the remaining 70% of the pedal does the remaining 90% of the throttle.

motoxxxman · 10-10-2006, 08:49 PM

actually for the intake to be on the front of the motor, all you'd have to do is this:
-grind out the ports in the head on the stock intake side for more flow to the new exhaust side
-machine the stock exhaust ports to be the new intake ports.
-increase the size of the holes in the headgasket on the stock intake side
-increase the valve size on the stock exhaust valves to be intake valves
-stock intake cam can be used as the new exhaust cam, would just have to determine where to put the belt and use gears to find tune it between teeth
-have the stock exhaust cam reground for a bit higher duration and lift to become an intake valve
-make a header (theres plenty of room with the intake mani missing), and make an intake mani or itb setup
-determine how to rotate the cam sensor and dist so it lines up with the cams correctly for tdc
-aim the tb's straight towards the front of the car and be exposed to a scoop or some other form of ram air however you want to make it

Quote:

Originally Posted by WGFletch

if ur willing to spend that much and want power outa it then why wouldnt u just put it towards a turbo and make alot more power?

spend what? i can do most of it myself, and the actual machine work i cant do is actually pretty cheap for me. and this type of setup could be used for turbo or non-turbo. it would be better suited for non-turbo of course though.

has anyone seen the 8.63 second all motor skunk2 car? this is how they set their car up....

Bobnova · 10-10-2006, 08:53 PM

They are probably using a K series motor, which points the intake forward anyway.
Most modern FWD cars(honda and toyota, at least) do now as far as i can tell.

MustardCat · 10-10-2006, 09:00 PM

Heres a swap I just did into a corolla, 4AGE with stock ITB's. Seems a bit touchy when the motor is cold, but once warmed up didnt have any problems with drivability, the throttle wasnt especially touchy or anything, felt just like any other car.... I've always heard bad stuff about drivability but this motor has changed my mind.

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 10:22 PM

It just makes sense to have the exhaust on the front of the engine for the coolant as well as the fans that cool the engine. Hell, Honda made it that way for a reason ya know... Why go screw with something that Im sure many many Honda engineers came up with that is tried, true, and proven to work.. And for what purpose? Totally NOT worth it. Now quit hi-jacking my post bitchez.

And as for a touchy throttle... woo hoo I like that idea. Let the rubber eat for all I care. Isnt that why you do this kind of thing in the first place? If i wanted lagging throttle response Id turbo it lol.

Ludasaurus · 10-10-2006, 10:35 PM

The concept of swapping the intake and exhaust manifolds is quite intriguing IMO. FUCK, those ITBs sound nice on that S2K. H22 Accord isn't that bad either.

B20lude · 10-10-2006, 10:42 PM

Yea the S2K sounds more than a wee bit wicked in that vid.... Hell, oops... I think i just creamed meself again watching it... woooops =P

Bobnova · 10-11-2006, 12:45 AM

The toyota drives nicely because those are stock ITBs, and they have a mechanical linkage that does what i was talking about earlier in the thread.

Very nice motors those.

10-10-2006, 05:03 PM	#1
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	B18c Itb A fellow honda owner has planted the seed of toying with ITBs on the GSR when I get my cams and port & polish. Do you guys know much about ITBs as well as the pros and cons? Ive seen them on the F20C but not the B18C __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock

10-10-2006, 05:06 PM	#2
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	Heres the link for a set as well and for $1600 they better add some power lol http://www.jhpusa.com/catalog/produc...roducts_id=456 __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock

10-10-2006, 05:33 PM	#4
MustardCat 16-Bit Era! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mount Vernon, WA Age: 26 Posts: 5,855 iTrader: (45) View Photos By: MustardCat	Yes. You can have an individual filter for each, or attach and air box to them and have a single filter for all. __________________ "I want the Prelude to run like a German machine... But I want it to have feel, like an Italian car." -Takeomi Miyoshi, 3G project leader. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 05:57 PM	#5
alanoneil Preludepower Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Age: 22 Posts: 1,213 iTrader: (1) View Photos By: alanoneil	As far as fitting in the engine bay, you might have clearance issues with thefirewall of the 3g Prelude. They are supposed to give great gains, mainly by evening the air flow so each cylinder gets the exact same amount of air. __________________ '89 Prelude 2.0Si 4WS, 141k mi. Love that B20A5! SuperPro urethane bushings, Ground Controls, and Koni struts.

10-10-2006, 06:03 PM	#6
Bobnova Mod of Doom. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Humboldt County (FAR northwest CA, on the coast) Posts: 9,426 iTrader: (7)	Pros: Easy to tune the intake runner length, very high flow, excellant top end power. Cons: Very hard to tune the air:fuel mixtures. Very touchy throttle pedal, give it 20% and you get 80% of peak torque. Very difficult to drive in the wet without lighting the tires up. For the same $1600 you could turbo it and make a lot more power. __________________ --Bobnova '89 2.0SI 4ws(280k miles), '76 Triumph TR7 FHC (63k miles) (I do not accept friends requests from people that aren't, you know, my friends. If you want to talk to me, use aim) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 06:23 PM	#7
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	Yeah I was looking at the firewall... Id need some short runners but damn it would look awesome seeing a B18C in full running gear with polished ITBs in a 3rd Gen =D __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock

10-10-2006, 06:31 PM	#8
motoxxxman Boost Junkie Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northern CT Age: 27 Posts: 13,236 iTrader: (61) View Photos By: motoxxxman	i've been playing with the idea of converting the exhaust ports to be intake ports and putting itb's with true centered ram air in the front of the motor, and making a custom header to mount to the rear of the motor. it's a lot of work, but damn would that be nice. and then you could use any itb setup you want if its mounted to the front of the motor. maybe you can talk to a local engine builder about what would be involved in making that happen, as its not something just anyone can do __________________ for sale: b20/b21/h23 pauter x-beam rods T To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (click for link) Official dealer for Hondata and Boomslang To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. 12.811 @109.54mph with a 1.947 60ft at only 9psi with a t3 and mostly stock internals To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 06:42 PM	#9
WGFletch Lude Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pittsford, NewYork Age: 19 Posts: 515 iTrader: (3) View Photos By: WGFletch	if ur willing to spend that much and want power outa it then why wouldnt u just put it towards a turbo and make alot more power? __________________ 1990 Prelude Si 4ws B21A SOLD

10-10-2006, 06:50 PM	#11
Bobnova Mod of Doom. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Humboldt County (FAR northwest CA, on the coast) Posts: 9,426 iTrader: (7)	Timing would be exactly the same, all you'd have to do is get some custom cams for it, and make new manifolds. The only downsides that i see are the most heads have more coolant around the exhaust ports to cool them, which wouldn't be there with the ports swapped, and that there isn't very much room on the back side of the engine for a header. __________________ --Bobnova '89 2.0SI 4ws(280k miles), '76 Triumph TR7 FHC (63k miles) (I do not accept friends requests from people that aren't, you know, my friends. If you want to talk to me, use aim) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 06:53 PM	#12
fcukwithmeprelude I RULE YOU!! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,596 iTrader: (17) View Photos By: fcukwithmeprelude	Couldn't you just swap the intake and exhaust cams? Wait, that wouldn't work. Um... wait. Yeah it would. As long as the CPS and distributor line up. And you'd have to readjust all your valves to proper intake/exhaust clearances. That sounds like one HELL of a project. __________________ Signature

10-10-2006, 06:58 PM	#14
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	Have you guys heard a Honda DOHC VTEC with ITBs? Lemme go find a link. its insane.... indy car like.... its worth it to me plus everyones got turbos and stuff.... would be cool to be the only B18C 3rd Gen with ITBs... I need to measure lol __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock

10-10-2006, 07:01 PM	#15
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	Eat your heart out. S2000 with ITB's http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...78f042a005.htm __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock Last edited by B20lude; 10-10-2006 at 07:05 PM.

10-10-2006, 07:03 PM	#16
JDM86lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: japan Age: 26 Posts: 4,207 iTrader: (17) View Photos By: JDM86lude	aww u guys are makin me wet myself talkin about itbs i wanted itbs for way to long i love them to def the sound and look of them absoutly true racing __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. follow my build of epic 2nd gen To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 07:12 PM	#17
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	How about this one... H22a Accord. Hell I want the whole damn car.... Sick ride.... yummy. http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...5da7a825a2.htm __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock

10-10-2006, 08:40 PM	#18
Bobnova Mod of Doom. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Humboldt County (FAR northwest CA, on the coast) Posts: 9,426 iTrader: (7)	You would need custom cams, the cam lobes are set off-center on the cam to work with the fact that the rockers aren't centered with the cam. It'd screw the profiles up something terrible to be on the "wrong" side of the head. The best thing to do with the throttle for ITBs is make a progressive setup, so the first 30% of the pedal only turns the throttles maybe 10%, then it ramps up so the remaining 70% of the pedal does the remaining 90% of the throttle. __________________ --Bobnova '89 2.0SI 4ws(280k miles), '76 Triumph TR7 FHC (63k miles) (I do not accept friends requests from people that aren't, you know, my friends. If you want to talk to me, use aim) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 08:53 PM	#20
Bobnova Mod of Doom. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Humboldt County (FAR northwest CA, on the coast) Posts: 9,426 iTrader: (7)	They are probably using a K series motor, which points the intake forward anyway. Most modern FWD cars(honda and toyota, at least) do now as far as i can tell. __________________ --Bobnova '89 2.0SI 4ws(280k miles), '76 Triumph TR7 FHC (63k miles) (I do not accept friends requests from people that aren't, you know, my friends. If you want to talk to me, use aim) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 09:00 PM	#21
MustardCat 16-Bit Era! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mount Vernon, WA Age: 26 Posts: 5,855 iTrader: (45) View Photos By: MustardCat	Heres a swap I just did into a corolla, 4AGE with stock ITB's. Seems a bit touchy when the motor is cold, but once warmed up didnt have any problems with drivability, the throttle wasnt especially touchy or anything, felt just like any other car.... I've always heard bad stuff about drivability but this motor has changed my mind. __________________ "I want the Prelude to run like a German machine... But I want it to have feel, like an Italian car." -Takeomi Miyoshi, 3G project leader. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 10:22 PM	#22
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	It just makes sense to have the exhaust on the front of the engine for the coolant as well as the fans that cool the engine. Hell, Honda made it that way for a reason ya know... Why go screw with something that Im sure many many Honda engineers came up with that is tried, true, and proven to work.. And for what purpose? Totally NOT worth it. Now quit hi-jacking my post bitchez. And as for a touchy throttle... woo hoo I like that idea. Let the rubber eat for all I care. Isnt that why you do this kind of thing in the first place? If i wanted lagging throttle response Id turbo it lol. __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock

10-10-2006, 10:35 PM	#23
Ludasaurus I wouldn't cunt on it. Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Washington State Age: 22 Posts: 3,976 iTrader: (24) View Photos By: Ludasaurus	The concept of swapping the intake and exhaust manifolds is quite intriguing IMO. FUCK, those ITBs sound nice on that S2K. H22 Accord isn't that bad either. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-10-2006, 10:42 PM	#24
B20lude Preludepower Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New York, New York Age: 24 Posts: 1,702 iTrader: (0) View Photos By: B20lude	Yea the S2K sounds more than a wee bit wicked in that vid.... Hell, oops... I think i just creamed meself again watching it... woooops =P __________________ *To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.* 09 Alpina White E92 M3 6MT -Eisenmann Sport exhaust 07 Montego Blue E93 335i 6MT -JB3 98 E36 M3 'vert 5MT -27k miles, all stock

10-11-2006, 12:45 AM	#25
Bobnova Mod of Doom. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Humboldt County (FAR northwest CA, on the coast) Posts: 9,426 iTrader: (7)	The toyota drives nicely because those are stock ITBs, and they have a mechanical linkage that does what i was talking about earlier in the thread. Very nice motors those. __________________ --Bobnova '89 2.0SI 4ws(280k miles), '76 Triumph TR7 FHC (63k miles) (I do not accept friends requests from people that aren't, you know, my friends. If you want to talk to me, use aim) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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